Is Train Of Thought a Dream Theater album?

[Aris_Berd]

Hello to everyone. I wanted to make this forum a long time ago, since I first heared to ToT. The main reason is that album and Jordan's «relationship» with that. I know Dream Theater many years and expected the best work, since there was JR on keyboards. However, when I first listened to ToT, I have to say that is hadn't amazed me at all. On the top of that, I still think that Dream Theater's best work (as they are saying ToT is) isn't this album. John Petrucci and Mike Portnoy have made it too heavy metal, drawing away from DT's music style. Neither Jordan is playing those pretty things in Metropolis or 6DOIT (or even at the LTE). That's all my opininion. I made this forum to hear yours. Do you think that have Dream Theater followed the right way with this album or is it an overthrow??? Has Jordan Rudess actively participated in it or he is just a keyboardist of a Heavy Metal Band ??

Thanks in advance for reading this forum.
-aris

[Liquid Shadow]

Rudess wrote most of the album, and he's doing a lot more on it than you would initially think.

And, this is not DT's new direction. It was a one time thing that they felt like trying (making a "classic" metal album) but they have said that it is not at all indicative of the direction they are heading with their music.


Personally, it's my least favorite DT album, but not because it's bad, just because the other DT albums were so good. There are some really good (and some bad) moments on it, and overall I don't think it was too shabby at all...but then again, I'm into a lot of metal anyways. I know that a lot of DT fans who like the lighter stuff don't really like ToT, so luckily for them this is not a new trend for DT's music.

[Aris_Berd]

I understand what you are saying. I have to admit that, despite being a Heavy Metal album, it is still Dream Theater. It has many Dream Theater things, but with other style. But, I don't really think that Jordan did a lot about this album. Ok, he is playing really interesting things, but in the past, he had played much more interesting. Another thing to say that Jordan is a little bit away in that album is the guitar: it sounds louder that it should be. Many times, it even covers the voice. Futhermore, there are times through ToT, so that while you hearing you can't say that's a DT album. In the end, I don't think that Jordan has participated so much. If he has, he doesn't show that.
I don't really thing he knows playing the Guitar better than John Petrucci to write most parts of that album.

[Tigerfolly]

Originally Posted by Aris_Berd

I understand what you are saying. I have to admit that, despite being a Heavy Metal album, it is still Dream Theater. It has many Dream Theater things, but with other style. But, I don't really think that Jordan did a lot about this album. Ok, he is playing really interesting things, but in the past, he had played much more interesting. Another thing to say that Jordan is a little bit away in that album is the guitar: it sounds louder that it should be. Many times, it even covers the voice. Futhermore, there are times through ToT, so that while you hearing you can't say that's a DT album. In the end, I don't think that Jordan has participated so much. If he has, he doesn't show that.
I don't really thing he knows playing the Guitar better than John Petrucci to write most parts of that album.

You've really got to listen carefully for Jordan's keyboard sounds, but they're most definitely there. On certain speakers, the keyboards are actually quite loud in fact! The keyboard parts are a little more abrasive and distorted, so they mesh very well with the overall mix of the album. Since they had played Metallica's "Master of Puppets" and Iron Maiden's "Killers" on the 6DOIT tour, and both of those bands had two guitar players (and zero keyboard players), Jordan essentially functioned as a second guitar player for those songs, playing guitar parts on his keyboard as well as, if not better than the originals. If you haven't heard them pull this off live, it's pretty cool.

http://www.ytsejamrecords.com/Produc...6&idproduct=16

Listen carefully, and you'll hear Jordan playing along with and playing off of the riffs on the album. He also wrote a LOT for it. If you haven't already, take your copy of Train of Thought, log into DreamTheater.net and check out the writing and recording of the album.

I view TOT like it's a concept album.. but instead of a story concept, it's a style concept. Kind of cool if you're into it.. but some fans weren't. On the other hand, it has gotten them a lot of airplay, and has made for an excellent live show.

There are rumors that the next Dream Theater album is going to be leaning into a more progressive direction.. but with Dream Theater, you just never know. Inspiration can strike in many ways.. I personally can't wait to see what they come up with next.

[Awake]

I think it's an absolutely ghastly album. It isn't prog, and I'm not even convinced it's Dream Theater - there is nothing about this album that makes me think of Dream Theater, beyond James' voice. Dream Theater, for me, is summed up by Petrucci's comment on 5YiaL: "one of our biggest influences is Yes, and you can really hear it in our orchestrations. But where it's reflective of our generation is the haviness and the sounds". Not a lot of orchestration on TrOT, period. It is particularly ironic that they chose to pilfer the acronym of a song that showcases everything that was right and good about pre-1998 DT - Trial of Tears for an album that showcases everything that's gone wrong at this point. Ghastly and narcissistic lyrics, monomaniacal bilge musically. Not even a hint of the sheer beauty that DT have showed us they can create, all subsumed beneath ragged, downtuned guitars, synths that sound like ragged, downtuned guitars, and widdle-widdle solos. Every opportunity for sudden musical vertical take-off missed, every opportunity for a non-widdly solos strenuously avoided. "Let down" isn't even the word. Absolute gutter trash.

Per all this, I have zero faith in DT's next album. The decision to tour with Yes is encouraging, tentatively, as maybe this will re-awaken a desire to write prog rock. I have much faith, however for Jordan's forthcoming album, as it seems that JR is the only DT member providing anything of any interest to me at the moment. Feeding the Wheel was excellent, and his contributions to SFaM and 6D have been the most interesting things about those albums.

In short, I think it's horrible, I think it's beneath their abilities, and I hope against expectation that it's a one-off that we'll soon be able to forget, DT's equivalent of Drama.

[Spacehog]

Originally Posted by Awake

it seems that JR is the only DT member providing anything of any interest to me at the moment

I don't quite agree with you there, although I respect your opinion. But the album that Mike's just recorded with Neal Morse and Randy George should be by far the most interesting release of the year, for me at least. Hmmm, I've not heard Adam & Eve yet though, nothing to do with DT, but the new Flower Kings album is released tomorrow.

I don't really see where this DT-bashing is helping. I personally was unimpressed with TOT when I first heard it. To sit and listen to the whole album, in one, is too much. Live it worked, because it has a whole lot of energy, but listening at home I don't think it's as successful. However, listen to individual tracks in a playlist with other DT stuff, and the songs all stand up fine. It's just too intense an experience.

I agree that it's not very prog-y, in the accepted sense of the word. Someone in another thread made some comments about what "prog" as a musical style is, some of which I agreed with, and some I didn't. But DT have never been a true prog band, they fall somewhere between prog and metal, and slide between those points from album to album. I'm not a metaller, so I prefer the more "prog" elements, which is why 6Degrees is my favourite album... but the songs from TOT for the most part still stand up. I made my criticisms at the time of release about too much widdly-widdly from JP, and I personally don't like the way that JM's lyrics have been ignored on recent albums as I think he always wrote the most thought-provoking lyrics.

I've never let one album turn me off a band, and I'm not going to let this one do either. If the next album becomes TOT pt2, then maybe I'll rethink, but as long as DT manage to curb the MP/JP ego-trip there's still plenty to hope for in the next album.

All just IMO...
Martin

[keys76]

Wow, those new topics keep amazing me.
I thought we had a topic about Disrespect?

I'm reading some things in this topic that I find are quite disrespectful to Jordan. I know from the first hand that Jordan wrote a lot of Train of Thought, together with JP and JM. Mike doesn't write that much but he's the master in putting parts together.

Imagine you've worked months on a new album and people are telling: "Well, Jordan didn't write a lot on that album."

That hurts man... :cry:

However, I'm convinced that the people on this Forum never mean to be rude or anything, but maybe it's OK to sometimes read your message again, before submitting it to the Forum.

Just my 2 cents...

Take care,
Jeroen

[Nolan]

Well before we end up with a big thread, and have to call Enigma in :)....

It's ok not to like this album, but don't presume things (about who wrote what).

In my circle of friends (yes, I have them) people really like this one (and didn't buy the previous one) and people who will sit this one out.

Fact is that DT wanted to do this, and for some people it is not yet clear that Jordan had a big part in this album even if we have to do some effort to really hear it.

I'm not telling everything DT or Jordan does is sacred.
Personally I'm more into JR then into DT.

Like Jeroen said (yo bro) re-read your post and try to watch the chosen words.
Sometimes things look more offensive then (maybe) meant to be


Father Coen

[keys76]

8)
Amen!

Jeroen :keys:

[Michael B. - The Mirror]

hmm, am i wrong or does the cover read "Dream Theater" ?? so i guess your question should be answered. all members of DT (wich includes JR btw) really LIKE ToT, this Album turned out exactly the way they wanted it.