Guitar Amp

[-=AnatomiC=-]

Lol - my turn to ask newbie questions :biggrin:

My bro wants a real analog guitar amp.... for his guitar....
He doesn't know much about guitars, and neither do I - but since the I'm a gear freak in the family, I decided to pick a right one, for him.

He already has Ibanez RG-350 guitar, Boss Metal Zone pedal, and Line6 Pod XT.
So what kind of amp would be a good for him, considering that he likes heavy music - distortions, overdrives etc...
He also would like to have a Marshall Amp.

I see there are 2 kinds of analog amps - Tube and Transistor... I guess tube is better, but they are very expensive so it's out of his budget, which is 400 euro.

I was thinking about this one: Marshall (http://www.musicstore.de/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/WFS/MusicStore-MusicStoreShop-Site/nl_NL/-/EUR/ViewProductDetail-Start;pgid=TOZgS1SZUWSb0000000000000000bRFfG7XW?Ca talogVideo=&ProductUUID=7OjVqHzlovsAAAESUel_Z_G5&CatalogCategoryID=tXXVqHzlKD8AAAEOylQYj8aP&JumpTo=OfferList)

[RemcoG]

I don't know much about the whole thing.. But my drummer had that guitar amp. And I was. Well. Pretty blown away with it's sounds. How the japanese people like to say it: Sugoi! But maybe there are much better amps for the money. The only thing I can tell you is that it is an amazing amp, and you can make heavy music with it.

[Syrinx]

I know this is not what you've asked, maybe others can give more relevant info, but try this thing out. If you can run VSTs on your PC (pretty easy, just let me know if you don't know how), FreeAmp3, a guitar amp VST has just been released (like yesterday) and completely legally free to download from: http://frettedsynth.home.att.net/

I have been fooling around with this thing and I am getting pretty decent tones.
The cream of the crop of software amps has to be Guitar Rig 3 from www.native-instruments.com but it costs about $300.

If software is not your thing, how about some modeling amps? I'm not sure the Marshall you have in mind classifies as one, but how about the new VOX valvetronix line? The Roland cube? or one of Line6 modeling amps?

[-=AnatomiC=-]

@ RemoG
By "that" you mean the Marshall I've suggested?
It is a vintage amp... and Marshall is considered to be the leading brand, I guess...

@ Syrinx
No, modeling amp or VST is not an option. My bro already has Line6 Pod XT, which is a digital guitar preamp/amp, with dozens of amp/effect pedal models.
Marshall is a transistor amp = analog, no modeling. That's what my logic says to me at least: transistor = electricity = analog.

My bro wants an analog amp... he doesn't like the sound of digital overdrives - a guitar must be amplified he says... what ever that means...

[Maximus]

many things to consider, is he looking for a combo amp? or a stack, how much flexibility does he want out of it? tubes ot solid state?, Does he shape his tone with FX or with the amp.

as with everything go out and try them all, :smile: although im very partial to the sound of the roland JC120, its solid state, but everything sounds clean, with no coloration, great for someone using a Pod. http://www.rolandus.com/products/productdetails.aspx?ObjectId=249&ParentId=57 do check the videos.

[Spacehog]

As someone who's primarily a guitarist, this may be a question in this forum I can answer with a little bit of authority. Seriously, DON'T BUY A MARSHALL MG! They're cheaply made, have poor speakers, and don't sound good at all. Sure, they sound good next to a POD, but compared to a quality amplifier, it's chalk and cheese. I had a Marshall MG250DFX for a couple of years as a student, when I was broke and couldn't afford anything better. As soon as I got a job, I got a Laney LC15R, which is an all-valve amp (seems antiquated to most keyboards, but guitar amps need valves for good distortion). It may be only 15W, but valve watts are a LOT louder than transistor watts, and it held its own in many a rehearsal against the other guitarist in my band's MESA Boogie Dual Rectifier 100W stack! Yours for €344 here (http://www.thomann.de/gb/laney_lc15r_egitarrencombo.htm) (they're cheaper from the UK). That would certainly be my recommendation in this budget.

€44 over budget would buy you the Peavey Valve King 112 (here (http://www.thomann.de/gb/peavey_valve_king_112_gitarrencombo.htm)), a 50W all valve monster that sounds awesome and is loud enough for almost any gig.

For some reason, Marshall don't make a small valve combo (cheapest is the DSL401 at over €800) but even if he's determined to use a Marshall he'd be much better off with a hybrid amp with a valve preamp than the MG. The AVT20X here (http://www.thomann.de/gb/marshall_avt20x_gitarrencombo.htm) at €324 is certainly worth a look.

The other thing you need to seriously consider is power output. Does he really need a 100W amp? Most times, you're going to be playing it at such a low level that a powerful amp is barely getting warmed up, while a smaller amp can really start to sing (guitar amps work best when turned up a good way). Any bigger shows, you can easily mic up an amp anyway. A lot of amps are appearing on the market at the moment which are all valve for sound quality, but which only put out about 5W - plenty for practice, awesome for recording. I'd not necessarily suggest getting him anything so small, as they'd struggle to compete with an enthusiastic drummer, but certainly a 15W valve combo (or a 50W transistor amp - about the same loudness) would be plenty. Remember, a 100W amp is not twice as loud as a 50W one - it's only a few dB more - and that all amps are rated as W before distortion, so a fully overdriven amp will be a lot louder than this figure would suggest.

I still use my LC15R for a considerable amount of my playing; certainly for recording and for worship gigs etc, which I do quite a lot of. I actually have 2 of them that I run in stereo for certain rigs. I have a 120W Peavey JSX head with a 4x12 cab now, which is something else entirely, but at €2100 for that particular combination, that's a whole different ballgame! So unless he's absolutely insistent on going for Marshall (which I really don't understand - there are much better amplifiers from other manufacturers out there these days), I'd go for the Laney (or stretch to the Peavey if you need the volume and versatility, although I can't vouch that it sounds as good).

[Omega Monkey]

It's probably an ok amp. if he likes the sound of it that's really what matters. Unfortunately, Marshall (like Fender and Gibson as well) pretty much coasts on it's good name these days, so they can put out anything and still charge a lot for it because of the nameplate on the front.

If he could find a used Laney combo that would probably give him the most bang for his buck. Those Laneys sound great for rock and metal and arent in very high demand so they are usually pretty inexpensive.

[Omega Monkey]

Hmmm, just saw spacehogs reply.

Technically there is no difference between "tube" watts, and "solid state" watts. There are many factors that determine the "loudness" of a particular amp, the wattage is one factor. But really, whether its tube or SS is not.

Other factors include cabinet design (open or closed back, material, density, etc...), speaker sensitivity (usually measured in db at 1W power), speaker impedance (load), the gain structure of the amp, the thd % of the amp, etc...

All things being equal, more watts means more volume ultimately. More watts also means your signal will stay clean to a higher volume level. More watts also means more headroom for more dynamic playing.

Personally, my main amp right now is the JC120 that Maximus mentioned. I like it because its designed to be a "clean" amp, so its more of a "hi fi" sound (and eventually I want to replace the stock speakers with EV fullrange speakers that have a "wizzer" cone on them in addition to the regular cone). Then I colour the guitar sound with effects and processing (distortion, eq, etc...). That gives me a lot more control than if I had an amp that had its OWN "colour", although I do plan to add a Rivera 100 Duo 12 as soon as I can afford it, and run them in stereo (but with different signal chains feeding them). The JC120 is 2x60W into 2 12 inch speakers, so it's stereo as well. 120 combined watts is actually a lot, and this amp can get pretty loud when I need it to (at band practice etc...). Personally, I wouldnt want much less than 100W into a 12" for a "serious" amp, and I definitely wouldnt get anything less than 50 (or MAYBE 40) watts for anything besides just practice and recording. As a first and main amp, you really want something that can adapt to any situation, so I'd say 100w 1x12" is probably the best format, whichever brand/model you end up with.

Oh, and I would stay away from amps that have a bunch of dsp effects and all that. They usually dont sound that great and add a lot of cost to the amp.

[Syrinx]

@ RemoG
By "that" you mean the Marshall I've suggested?
It is a vintage amp... and Marshall is considered to be the leading brand, I guess...

@ Syrinx
No, modeling amp or VST is not an option. My bro already has Line6 Pod XT, which is a digital guitar preamp/amp, with dozens of amp/effect pedal models.
Marshall is a transistor amp = analog, no modeling. That's what my logic says to me at least: transistor = electricity = analog.

My bro wants an analog amp... he doesn't like the sound of digital overdrives - a guitar must be amplified he says... what ever that means...

Not to start a war, but you obviously don't know much about amps, do you?
The transistor (i.e solid-state) amps, albeit analog, are yesterdays news. They produce by far the worst distortion sounds known to man, but great for clean tones though e.g. Roland JC series.
A recent amp modeller (The Vox valvetronix for example) will wipe the floor with any solid state amp when it comes to distortion. Have you tried one lately?

As for software, ehmm....the quality of the latest stuff is mind boggling. Software is now at a point where the quality is much better than more expensive hardware. Do I need to mention Revelaer Mk II (http://www.alienconnections.com/products_revalverii.htm)? This is a software that models the behavior of the components (tubes, capacitors, circuit boards) of tube amps. So a preset in this prgram is actually an amp!!!! Don't be quick to dismiss something you hardly know anything about.

If you are dead set on buying a tube amp, well, they are expensive, at least the good ones, and they are inconsistent. But to each his own. The best budget ones that I know of are the Peavey Classic and the Tech 21. Laney also makes nice stuff. Bottom line, try the amp in a store before you buy.

[Spacehog]

The closest my guitar gets to my computer is when I'm sat in front of the PC noodling or learning songs off on-screen tab... the very thought sends shivers down my spine. Guitar is an organic (some would say orgasmic!) instrument, and good guitar tone is derived from good quality woods, good quality passive pickups, analogue effects, valves and quality speakers. VSTs have their places as dynamics processors and reverbs, but the key is to get a good clear guitar sound first, before you start messing it up with all that digital junk (and yes, I'm a recording studio owner and an IT specialist, but I know what my ears hear).

@OM, I know a watt is technically a watt, but what I stated is simply the way it is - a 50W valve amp will sound a lot louder than a 50W transistor amp. Loudness is a variable thing and depends on so many other factors, but I'd put my 15W LC15R up against your JC120 in a subjective loudness test any day! Particularly if I were to plug it into my 4x12 cab.

Anyway, my point was primarily to steer him clear of the Marshall MG, which is a horrific line of amplifiers.

[-=AnatomiC=-]

As a matter of fact, I don't know squad about guitar amps... So correct me where I'm wrong.

Okay - let's put it that way. Considering that he already has Pod XT, what would be the best way to get a good sound.

Honestly - I'm also a bit frustrated. My bro doesn't know what he wants, obviously: Pod XT with monitor headphones doesn't produce decent sound, in his opinion. So he wants to amplify his Pod XT with some kind of an active monitor (let's say mackie SRM450) system, and apparently it will produce much better sound :eek:

Like I said, I don't know jack about amp, but there is just something fishy about it...

[Syrinx]

No problem, I remember (from my previous life :smile:) how a guitarist feels about an amp, frustration, anger, disappointment are common feelings if you don't get the tone you want, which in most cases is too expensive to get.

If he wants to amplify the POD-XT tone I guess any decent amp with clear channel would work, but Tech 21 (http://www.tech21nyc.com/tm30.html) is famous for doing exactly this. It's a tube amp that does not "color" the sound at all. It's not cheap and it is a very nice tube amp on its own.

If your bro wants to diss the POD-XT for something better, he has to know precisely which tone he is looking for. Tube amp's own distortions are very unique. You can't get a Mesa Boogie kind of high-gain distortion from a Fender twin no matter how much you push it.
As I suggested before, Peavey, Vox, Laney are among the brands that offer tube amps with reasonable prices. To know which one is best I think a visit to the nearest Guitar Center is mandatory :biggrin:

[Syrinx]

The closest my guitar gets to my computer is when I'm sat in front of the PC noodling or learning songs off on-screen tab... the very thought sends shivers down my spine. Guitar is an organic (some would say orgasmic!) instrument, and good guitar tone is derived from good quality woods, good quality passive pickups, analogue effects, valves and quality speakers. VSTs have their places as dynamics processors and reverbs, but the key is to get a good clear guitar sound first, before you start messing it up with all that digital junk (and yes, I'm a recording studio owner and an IT specialist, but I know what my ears hear).
....

The digital 'junk' keeps getting better and better on every release. Five years ago no one would have even imagined that a laptop could be all you need for a guitar amp. At the end, what you hear from a tube amp is a sound wave that came out of a speaker as a result of an electric signal. If you can emulate this electric signal, you'll get the same sound, period.
As processing power keeps growing, I expect the tube amps to go the way of the dinosaurs in the very near future.
Guitarists like John Mclaughlin (uses Amplitube), Bret Garsed (uses GuitarRig 3) and many others have already made up their minds.

[MrPillow]

You can probably get a used Mesa F-Series or Nomad in that price range. All tube, great sounding, wondeful all around amps. If not, a small tube amp such as the Valveking or Crate Palomino with a good distortion box is a solid choice since their lead channels are lacking or either non-existent.

But really, whether its tube or SS is not.



Not really sure what you're saying here Omega, but I've never run across a tube amp, guitar or otherwise, that was quieter than a solid state of even twice the wattage.


Syrinx, I don't think those Tech21 amps are tube at all =\

[Syrinx]

...


Syrinx, I don't think those Tech21 amps are tube at all =\

You're right, I was wrong. But that's how I remember how good it sounds. It's a wonderful little amp with very nice tuby tones. It even comes with XLR outputs for direct recording. Will be a good companion for the POD-XT IMHO.

[-=AnatomiC=-]

My bro tried trial version of guitar rig 3, and well, he didn't liked it at all... crappy sound he says...

Thx guys, but I think we should go to few stores, with his guitars, and try every amp there is....

[whitelightening]

Tell your bro to check out the Revalver Mk II:

www.alienconnections.com

This thing is absolutely AMAZING!!!! A good chunk of the guys over at johnpetrucci.com suggested it to me over Guitar Rig 3, Amplitube, PODXT, Digitech GNX4, Vox Tonelab, and tons of other amp modelers. I have made some very amazing sounds with basically NO knowledge of guitar setups at all. There is a free trial that is the full version without the ability to save (and a pink noise every 30-45 seconds or so). In any case, I think this is probably the most useful piece of musical software I have found in the last 5 years. This thing totally blows away every other piece of guitar amp modeling gear I have ever used. The samples on the website are not there to fool you, the thing actually sounds that Good!

[Syrinx]

My bro tried trial version of guitar rig 3, and well, he didn't liked it at all... crappy sound he says...

Thx guys, but I think we should go to few stores, with his guitars, and try every amp there is....


To each his own I always say, but did he try it on a decent computer with a decent sound card? Not just thru a laptop with on-board sound? A great deal of any VST sound depend on having a pro quality sound card with decent DACs. Gaming sound cards, however expensive, do NOT qualify in my book.

Here are a review that I found useful:
http://www.betterguitar.com/equipment/other_gear/native_instruments/guitar_rig/guitar_rig.html

Also with GuitarRig3 you are not just getting an amp, but also a host of effects racks and pedals that you can mix and match. It's a wild ride IMHO.

Tell your bro to check out the Revalver Mk II:

www.alienconnections.com

This thing is absolutely AMAZING!!!! A good chunk of the guys over at johnpetrucci.com suggested it to me over Guitar Rig 3, Amplitube, PODXT, Digitech GNX4, Vox Tonelab, and tons of other amp modelers. I have made some very amazing sounds with basically NO knowledge of guitar setups at all. There is a free trial that is the full version without the ability to save (and a pink noise every 30-45 seconds or so). In any case, I think this is probably the most useful piece of musical software I have found in the last 5 years. This thing totally blows away every other piece of guitar amp modeling gear I have ever used. The samples on the website are not there to fool you, the thing actually sounds that Good!

+1.

[Omega Monkey]

Not really sure what you're saying here Omega, but I've never run across a tube amp, guitar or otherwise, that was quieter than a solid state of even twice the wattage.


Sorry, but there is just NO scientific basis for this at all.

Again, to really know if it was the difference between tube and solid state, you would have to make everything else the same, and then actually MEASURE the output levels.

Now, you might get more volume from one or the other at the same point on the volume knob, but that doesnt really mean anything besides how the amp responds to the volume knob itself, and that is going to change from amp to amp, regardless of how they are designed.

[Spacehog]

Actually, there's plenty of basis for it, because we're talking perceived loudness not measured loudness. See here (http://www.geofex.com/tubeampfaq/beginner_tube_amps.htm) for a brief summary, but I found explanations all over the place from a simple google search that said the same thing. Solid state amps get louder, then they stop getting louder. Full stop. A Tube amp gets louder, then keeps on getting louder while distorting slightly (this is the warmth that you get from pushing a tube power stage hard which a solid state amp can't hope to provide). Tube amps also naturally compress the signal, which also increases loudness (same way that you compress recordings to make them seem louder without digital clipping, and then radio stations compress the hell out of them again to maximise their impact without exceeding broadcasting signal laws).

[-=AnatomiC=-]

We went to a store, and my bro tried out Fender (one with 5 watt :tongue: and vintage look). Clean was good, but with distortion pedal it wasn't very good.

He also saw Orange Tiny Terror (switchable between 7 and 15 watt).
Has anyone tried it?

Btw - my bro doesn't have a good PC, and soundcard is junk...

Btw: I bought one of those Roland expression pedals, for my keyboard rig.

[Grey Loki]

Several of my guitarist friends speak very highly of the Orange amp series - supposedly they're very 'crunchy'.

Cockos Reaper (http://www.cockos.com/reaper/) runs very well on my 1.4GHz 256MB RAM laptop - plenty of juice, even for mixing 16 tracks of audio.

As to the soundcard, if your brother is only going to be recording his guitar, there are several USB audio devices which are no more than a female 1/4" jack with a USB connector on the other end - these would be sufficient, though probably not of particularly high quality.

If, however, he's looking to record more, I would go for something by MOTU (Such as the Ultralite - my personal favourite of their interfaces), or one of the Digidesign MBox series - not only do you get a fairly good sounding interface, but you also get a copy of Pro Tools, which is rather nice :D

Hope this helps.

[-=AnatomiC=-]

Thanks - but he wants an amp for practicing guitar, not recording...

And he likes vintage stuff, so I guess digital things are not an option...

[Syrinx]

Ok, then did he try this one (http://www.zzounds.com/item--VOXAD15VT)?

http://www.activemusician.com/images/store/small/EM_VOX-AD15VT.gif

At $199, it's hard to beat.

EDIT:
If he insists on a tube amp, I didn't know about this but there are a few budget choices out there, don't know anything about how they sound:
At $249: http://www.zzounds.com/item--FEN2331000
At $299: http://www.zzounds.com/item--FEN2331100

[Morten]

I highly recommend your brother not to buy a new amplifier for 400€, especially when he has the Pod XT already. It is just a matter of tweaking it, and you will get 1000 times better sound than from a Marshall MG, (which by the way is crap, as someone already mentioned). There are GOOD sounds waiting inside the Pod that just waits to get out, it's just the job to get them out of there that can be tricky at first. Ask a bit around at for example the Petrucci-forum for tips and patches.

If your brother is a vintage stuff-kind-of-guy, I would definetely have saved up some more cash and bought a better amp after a while. The Pod is more than good enough in the mean time. Really!
You can't get a good amp (6505 (+), AC-30, Powerball, MkIV,.....) for €400.


Morten

[-=AnatomiC=-]

Thx... I think so too...

PodXT seems to be a very good piece of gear, but he says that sound stinks... well I don't believe him - I think the problem lies somewhere else... maybe pick-ups are busted, or something... I don't know...

Hmm - he has problems with overdrives/distortions... it just sounds wrong, and I agree with him... overdrive patches on my keyboard sound much better!

But if I try to hook up his guitar to my keyboard, and route it trough effects, it still doesn't sound right! (even if I use preset overdrive effects of certain lead guitars)

So I think there is something wrong with his guitar... though he said he managed to get decent sounds from 1 Fender amp (I think it was solid state) - or so he says, personally I don't believe him - I think he has this thing, like everything you don't have sounds better - you know what I mean?

I don't know jack about guitars, so I can't say what's wrong...

[Omega Monkey]

What is he running the POD (or POS as I prefer, because I hate that digital crap, the Cyber Twin is the only one Ive tried with decent tones) in to? If it's computer speakers or home stereo or something like that, of course it's going to sound like shit! Those are full range speakers, whereas normal guitar amps have a very limited frequency response that only goes up to about 7k or so. So all the highs get attentuated, and this is what is going to give you the classic electric guitar sound.

If that is the case, try adding some cabinet emulation (I assume the POD has this otherwise it really is a POS), which should make it sound a lot more "normal" through something like computer speakers or home stereo. Or perhaps you WERE running into some kind of guitar amp already, and either just had either it or the POD setup wrong, or were using cabinet emulation when you didnt need it (which will also result in horrible sound).

If you want solutions, you need to tell us every detail of how this equipment is setup and what settings you are using with it.

[-=AnatomiC=-]

No - no hi-fi speakers...
I always play with monitor headphones (Roland RH-200s - not the best headphones there are, but still, pretty decent and professional), and he used them also.
I just can't make a lot of noise, where I live... and I like to play (practice), without everyone hearing me

[Omega Monkey]

Same thing. Theres your problem.

Use a cabinet emulator and the sound should be a lot better.

[-=AnatomiC=-]

It's not really a question of sound quality... his guitar doesn't sound like overdrive lead guitar at all - not even close!

It's like, a Saw waveform will sound like a Sine waveform on your synth... monitors can't be the cause of such big alteration (well, it can be, if it's really messed up - but my monitors work fine!)

Besides, like I said, keyboard guitar leads sound fine on my monitors - why should PodXT sound bad (and he tried every emulation there is, and we also used COSM modeled guitar effect on my FX, with speaker simulation)? Correct me if I'm wrong

[whitelightening]

Seriously:

Revalver Mk II

I'm dead serious about this...even for the people who say digital and modelers are crap (or as Omega Monkey says a POS), I dare you to try it! This thing is so freaking close to the real thing and infinitely more tweakable than a POD or anything else I've ever tried out that even the true hardcore guitar guys admit that the thing is just that damn good. The interface is an absolute breeze to work with and even the demo version is good enough for practicing and even recording. I honestly can't stress this enough.

If he can't get a good tone out of this, then there is definitely something wrong with his guitar. If (and when) you try this out, be sure and try a "ShutUp Shb-1b Noise Gate" in front of the signal (from the effects section). If you have any questions about this, please ask me and I'll do what I can to help.

[Omega Monkey]

Correct me if I'm wrong

You're wrong.

Guitar is NEVER going to sound great through headphones, no matter what you do it (aside from miking a real amp cabinet and running it through the proper processing like you would to record). But if you get a good tone setting (here is where a real amp would help), and then add the right cabinet simulation, you should be able to get something at least decent.

[-=AnatomiC=-]

Lol... I quit - all laws of keyboards don't work here anymore!
Why can a digital keyboard with effects sound good and a digital amp doesn't?

Why can you plug your monitor headphones directly to your keyboard and hear good sound, and why won't it work with PodXT, which is 100% digital?

Sorry guys - it goes far beyon my keyboard logic :eek: let my bro solve this - after all, it's his problem, and I'm not even a guitar player...


Besides - some of you say digital is crap - others say, digital is beter than most analog stuff...
It's really hard to decide, and both of you have very good points...

[Spacehog]

Digital processing and reproduction of a digital source (like your keyboard) is one thing, and will work well and sound good. Digital processing and reproduction of an analogue source (like your brother's guitar) is a whole other matter, and generally doesn't sound good. What you want for a digital keyboard is even and wide frequency response, accurate amplification and a clean signal from start to finish. What you want for a guitar is an uneven and narrow frequency response (that can pretty much only be reproduced by a 10" or 12" speaker tailored specifically to guitar), and amplification that introduces inaccuracies and non-linear artefacts into the signal. That's just the nature of the beast, and stems from someone 40 years or more ago (when you couldn't produce linearly responsive equipment) deciding that they actually liked the broken up and overdriven signal they got from a guitar going into overload. Without someone making that discovery, we'd all be playing jazz ;)

[Grey Loki]

Besides - some of you say digital is crap - others say, digital is beter than most analog stuff...
It's really hard to decide, and both of you have very good points...

They both have their uses. I'm fed up with the digital/analogue fanboyism that's going around these days - digital can do some things better than analogue can, and likewise analogue can do some things better than digital can. If you were smart, you'd have both in your recording setup and use them to their strengths.

Food for thought: as far as i'm aware, major recording studios still back up their masters (and sometimes the condensed multitracks, too) to analogue tape.

[-=AnatomiC=-]

Well, I don't know - when I plug a mic into a digital effect processor, it works fine - though a mic is also an analog source.


And guys - how many times do I have to repeat my self, - the result is not just "bad" sound, it sounds nothing like my bro and I would expect. I can't be because digital processors are just bad...

Besides - we he already tried a tube amp with Boss MT pedal, and it still sounded like crap...
There is something wrong with his guitar - do you have any typical n00b mistakes in mind?

IMHO analog tape is better for pro recordings, but digital stuff gives an acceptable level of quality also... but in our case it's just crap....

[Grey Loki]

IMHO analog tape is better for pro recordings, but digital stuff gives an acceptable level of quality also... but in our case it's just crap....

Incorrect, i'm afraid - pro studios shell out tens of thousands of pounds on digital equipment for a reason - it's higher fidelity, it has a much lower noise floor, and it's more resilient (for the most part, heh).

Say you want to put the rhythm guitar track to tape to make it really pump - most studios would record to their preferred digital medium first (at say, 24bit/96KHz), then bounce from there onto the tape to get that lovely saturation and compression, then record that back into the DAW, for the non-linear flexibility it gives.

Back to your original problem though:

Perhaps there's a problem with one or two of the pups? You've not said exactly what the problem is, so far as I can see - just that you're getting a 'bad' sound. One of my guesses would be that there's some sort of phasing issue involved - perhaps your pups are wired wrong (which is doubtful), perhaps the cable has been wired incorrectly (most likely).

Have you tried recording your guitar clean? Does it sound like it 'should'? Have you tried setting all tone controls to flat and played through the amp, with different pup combinations?

Obvious things would be something like overdriving an already-distorted signal - it just sounds _nasty_ because of the harmonics that distortion and overdrive add - adding them twice emphasises them and makes everything sound nasty.

These are just ideas off the top of my head. I've found that when trying to get a good tone, it's best to be very methodical about things - sure, sometimes you can get a good sound by accident after faffing around, but how do you know what you did to make it sound good?

Hope this helps.

[Syrinx]

Besides - some of you say digital is crap - others say, digital is beter than most analog stuff......

LOL. It's all about the distortion for a rock/metal guitarist. You can use a solid state amp (= transistor or no amp emulation) for clean sounds and it'll sound crystal clean, unlike a tube amp. It's when you try to drive the amp by raising the gain that solid state amps start to loose it sound-wise. They distort in a very brittle and harsh kind of way as opposed to the warm smooth sound of a distorted tube amp.

Tube distortion is pretty hard to duplicate without the tube, I guess. But tube amp emulations that utilizes digital processing power are getting better every day, but at the end your ears are the judge, so it's highly subjective. Think of it as physical modeling for us synthesisists (spelling?)

If you have a Fantom-X, you get a taste of the COSM amp modeling technology that Roland is famous for. Apply a COSM distortion/amp fx on a clean guitar patch and see if your brother likes the sound. I for myself like it.

[-=AnatomiC=-]

If you have a Fantom-X, you get a taste of the COSM amp modeling technology that Roland is famous for. Apply a COSM distortion/amp fx on a clean guitar patch and see if your brother likes the sound. I for myself like it.

What I already did... like I mentioned before...
In Roland promotional video, they do (plug a guitar directly/with Boss pedal into FX) that and it sounds pretty good, IMO - his (bro) "distortion/overdrive" is to much distorted/overdriven, I would say - you get only dirt and distortion/overdrive sound and not music.... I would upload some audio samples, to make my self clear, but I'm in the middle of exams right now... no time...

[Omega Monkey]

Why can you plug your monitor headphones directly to your keyboard and hear good sound, and why won't it work with PodXT, which is 100% digital?

Because keyboards are designed to be reproduced by a full range speaker system, which a pair of headphones is (at least decent ones are). An electric guitar is normally reproduced through a limited range speaker, and those "missing" frequencies contribute to what we consider "typical" guitar tone.


Besides - some of you say digital is crap - others say, digital is beter than most analog stuff...
It's really hard to decide, and both of you have very good points...

It's not really so much a digital vs analog issue at all. You are missing the point. It has to do with the speaker system reproducing the sounds. A keyboard is more appropriate through a full range system. A guitar (especially a distorted guitar) is more appropriate for a limited range system. The reason why, is because distortion adds a lot of harmonics and overtones to the sound, and a full range system reproduces "too many" of these which makes the sound unpleasant generally. Keyboard sounds that use distortion are typically programmed to have a lot of the high end taken out so they sound right on full range systems.


the result is not just "bad" sound, it sounds nothing like my bro and I would expect

That's because of all those extra overtones.


he already tried a tube amp with Boss MT pedal, and it still sounded like crap...

Ok, so basically he just doesnt know what he's doing. Just keep tweaking the settings until you get something good.


Say you want to put the rhythm guitar track to tape to make it really pump - most studios would record to their preferred digital medium first (at say, 24bit/96KHz), then bounce from there onto the tape to get that lovely saturation and compression, then record that back into the DAW, for the non-linear flexibility it gives.


That wouldnt really make sense because you have a completely unnecessary step in there introducing unwanted noise and distortion (ie the first digital recording). Makes more sense to just record to analog in the first place and then dump it to digital one time (if you are talking about tracking that is).

Actually, I think what I will end up doing is TRACKING to DIGITAL (right now that would be onmy Fostex VF16 HD recorder), then MIXING to ANALOG (via my vintage TEAC reel to reel and Advent outboard Dolby NR unit), then MASTERING back to digital (probably in Pro Tools at my friend's place). I havent put this into practice yet, because I dont have any "finished" material right now, and I also need to make a minor repair to the TEAC (the "tape guide" arm on the uptake side appears to be bent back a bit. But I think when I am able to do this it will come out pretty well (and it will use the rare "DAD" configuration, as opposed to the more common AAA, AAD, ADD, and DDD).

Now, if I had a nice 16 track RTR, I would probably just go ahead and do AAD or ADD. Actually, some A/DDD would be good too (ie fill up the 16 analog tracks with stuff like guitars and drums and vocals, then dump that to a digital multitrack, and add keys, etc..., then mix and master as you normally would).

[Grey Loki]

That wouldnt really make sense because you have a completely unnecessary step in there introducing unwanted noise and distortion (ie the first digital recording). Makes more sense to just record to analog in the first place and then dump it to digital one time (if you are talking about tracking that is).

It's true, you can do it that way too - I prefer to record to digital first because then if I decide later on that I don't like the analogue 'sound', I still have the digital copy there too with no real sound at all.

It's just me being anal about giving myself choice, really :P