K2600 worth it?

[MrPillow]

I've lately been looking into getting a K2600 rack for a few reasons. Mainly the Kurzweil piano, string, and other sounds I have wanted for a long time, but also the complexity and amazing sound abilities of the VAST system. However, alot of people seem to be saying the K2*00 series is getting old, outdated, and is no longer worth the money or the large learning curve. I don't think this is true, but it does make sense.

Is the K2600 still a potent and worthwhile synth? Is the technology growing old enough to where it is becomming hindered? I'm not much a fan of SCSI devices, never have been, but I am willing to get past that if the synth itself is all its hyped up to be.

Also, is the small display extremely hard to use? I understand it wont be a walk in the park like the Fantom, but is it really that much of a pain?

[Maximus]

NO.

nothing that still uses 3.5 discs and scsi should cost that much....

however.....

it still is da shit

it still sounds just as good as the current major 3 workstations and it has a lot of avanced features, but from a pricing stand its not worth it, the gap is not as wide technology wise as it was almost 10 years ago, so the price is not justified

[-=AnatomiC=-]

Kurzweil is still a very powerful keyboard, but only because there is no successor - something that will make it look bad :tongue: Just wait till k3000 comes out, and then it will become outdated.

So I would say no - price is not justified. For the same price you can get an up to date synth.

[Omega Monkey]

Not really.

They are pretty cool and were great for their time (but too expensive even then). They are really lacking an updated ROM set. If Kurzweil was smart, they would develop a retrofit with a huge ROM update, and increased RAM capability (and if possible USB connectivity). If they could do that, the thing would be modern again and would be one of the best choices out there. But then again, if they did that, prices would go way up too. Actually, any 2 of those 3 things would really be a big improvement.

[Liquidkey]

The reason you should not buy it, isn't because its a bad keyboard, but because it's overpriced.

I bought my K2600XS w/9gb internal hardisk(:biggrin: ), half a year ago. And I love it! Yes it may be outdated and it's starting to get old, but this keyboard is still one of the greatest workstations out there. If you get it cheap I wouldn't doubt about it. But make sure you get a good deal before bying this.

(If you're gonna buy this one, make sure you get the rom blocks too, they're half the keyboard)

Also, is the small display extremely hard to use? I understand it wont be a walk in the park like the Fantom, but is it really that much of a pain?
Not at all. If the display on the rack is at the same size as the keyboard, it's actually pretty big. And if you have trouble seeing anything at it, you better check your vision :P

-Mikael

[HammondToby]

Like Liquidkey said, they're great, but the price for a new unit is way to high. I'd recommend a used K2600 with all the ROMs. You have to have in mind that it's not too easy to get around with the K, at least at the beginning, but it's a very versatile and good sounding unit, although outdated (ROMwise).

The PC3, follower of the K2600, will have a slightly updated ROM, a new engine (for the moment not compatible with previous Kurzweil products), more polyphony and a modular sound architecture, new KB3 model, VA oscillators, more effects capabilities, USB connection, editing software... I think, it's a repackaging and augmentation of the existing Kurz technology to check, if there will be a group of musicians, that is big enough, that's woth the developement of the K3000 (there were already design studies of it, but I haven't seen them). Everything about the K3000 is pure speculation at the moment!

Best regards
HammondToby

[MrPillow]

I was looking at the PC3x but I need something that can fit in a rack, or at least something with only 61 keys.

Unless of course, the PC3 can be an entire replacement for my Fantom, in which case I would look into it a little more. As I understand it, the PC3x is geared more as a master controller/stage piano, not a full workstation. Am I incorrect in this? Does it hold all the capabilities of the K2600 series, minus the sampling?

[Baron Von Cruzer]

The rack version isn't listed on the Kurzweil website. That means they're not making it anymore. So however much you see it priced at, it's not "new."

[Megakazbek]

Does it hold all the capabilities of the K2600 series, minus the sampling?
Except the sampling and audio I/O features, PC3X is a very significant upgrade to K2600 series with its dynamic VAST (infinitely more synthesis capabilities than K2600!), VA-1 virtual analog synthesis expansion, updated KB3 organ emulation, four times more powerful KDFX and other minor and major improvements.

[MrPillow]

Interesting. I'll have to go try one out once it is released, sounds very interesting!

[Maximus]

it seems that we all agree that the kurzweil 2600 it's currently overpriced, yet the point is, How much is it worth to you? right now,

nobody mentioned the K2661, sure the PC3 is very promesing and it has me looking in to it as a new 88 key stage piano, but if you want the kurzweil sound and features right now, and you have the $$$, and nothing else will do, no compromise, well there's your answer.

[HammondToby]

At least in Germany, the K2661 is in the price range of a standart 61 key workstation, including 128MB RAM, the Orch and the Contemp board preinstalled. For the Ribbon, SD Piano and the Vintage Electric you have to pay additionally. If you would buy a fully blown K2661 at the moment, you'd end up at about 2300 Euros, if you can negotiate, something about 2100 or less. To me, this is a price, I'm willing to pay, 'cause I've got all the warranties and support and it's way under the amount, I have to pay for a fully blown K2600R... I didn't mention the sampling option, 'cause I think, there are better ways at the moment, then using the K to sample. I can load samples anyway, so I don't need the analog inputs.

Best regards
HammonToby

[infinityBBC]

i cannot understand why Kurzweil has decided to invest so much time in newer keyboard designs rather than upgrading the K2xxx series. what happened to "upgradable" keyboards?

it seems this K3000 is LONG overdue. what gives with these guys?

[MrPillow]

Well, one must consider the boat that Kurzweil is in.


For starters, they went bankrupt, or nearly so. Secondly, the company was reduced to LESS THAN 10 PEOPLE. They have a miniscule budget compared to any other company. Right now the only thing they are trying to do is build a keyboard that will sustain a profit and get them back in a position to even consider making boards that might sell to only a select few people.

The PC3X is the board that will either make or break Kurzweil. They need something that more people will buy than a "K3000" or some other pocket draining keyboard. I mean, check the prices on a new K2600 these days...


The K2XXX series has been upgraded over and over for many many years, and in many ways the PC3X is an upgrade and extension of the K2XXX series, minus the sampling. It incorporates mainly vastly improved versions of the K2600 tech, as well as some new things too.

[infinityBBC]

i can understand Kurzweil having problems after these set backs. however, it seems to me they are taking a huge risk of losing their market.

IMHO, they would have been better off continuing the Kxxxx line but just reducing some of the pricey features which not everyone needs. however, i'm not sure which features exactly most contribute to the overwhelming cost of the board.

in my case, i never even wanted the "S" (Sample) feature - i just picked up a K2500XS because it was what was available for a decent deal at the time. and i don't need tons of outputs and probably a host of other capabilities i don't even know about.

all i would like to have in a killer board is 88 weighted keys, a huge base of sounds with basic editing capabilities, basic synth capabilities, live/performance oriented layering & volume control capabilities, cool data controllers (like the faders, ribbons & perhaps a Theremin-esque pad of sorts), improved polyphony capability and a more simplified interface (again, geared toward performance).

to me, the Kxxxx series is near perfection, mostly lacking in a more friendly user interface. but do the features i desire really warrant a price tag which is out of the ballpark for the masses -- especially when most of it is already created?

it seems to me that the company has perhaps dug their own grave by vastly over charging in some areas. for example, at one point i paid $40 for the battery holder in my K2500! if a company will rape their customers like that on a regular basis, they will lose customers.

another aspect of concern is seeing a company offer too many product options and not sticking to a smaller and more focused line. as an example, Apple was about run into the ground back in the 90's when they came out with so many Mac models with barely any difference between then. i owned an Apple VAR at the time and we thought they went completely mad! 8-)

well, knowing now that Kurzweil has had so many problems and they are taking a path i would not take if i was in charge of their marketing strategies, i wonder if i shouldn't invest any more money in their products. i'll have to ponder on it further.

thank you for your input!

8-)

bbc

[Maximus]

i can understand Kurzweil having problems after these set backs. however, it seems to me they are taking a huge risk of losing their market.

IMHO, they would have been better off continuing the Kxxxx line but just reducing some of the pricey features which not everyone needs. however, i'm not sure which features exactly most contribute to the overwhelming cost of the board.

in my case, i never even wanted the "S" (Sample) feature - i just picked up a K2500XS because it was what was available for a decent deal at the time. and i don't need tons of outputs and probably a host of other capabilities i don't even know about.

all i would like to have in a killer board is 88 weighted keys, a huge base of sounds with basic editing capabilities, basic synth capabilities, live/performance oriented layering & volume control capabilities, cool data controllers (like the faders, ribbons & perhaps a Theremin-esque pad of sorts), improved polyphony capability and a more simplified interface (again, geared toward performance).

to me, the Kxxxx series is near perfection, mostly lacking in a more friendly user interface. but do the features i desire really warrant a price tag which is out of the ballpark for the masses -- especially when most of it is already created?

it seems to me that the company has perhaps dug their own grave by vastly over charging in some areas. for example, at one point i paid $40 for the battery holder in my K2500! if a company will rape their customers like that on a regular basis, they will lose customers.

another aspect of concern is seeing a company offer too many product options and not sticking to a smaller and more focused line. as an example, Apple was about run into the ground back in the 90's when they came out with so many Mac models with barely any difference between then. i owned an Apple VAR at the time and we thought they went completely mad! 8-)

well, knowing now that Kurzweil has had so many problems and they are taking a path i would not take if i was in charge of their marketing strategies, i wonder if i shouldn't invest any more money in their products. i'll have to ponder on it further.

thank you for your input!

8-)

bbc

you touched on very interesting points, mass appeal vrs cost being the crucial one, its basically what made kurzweil go under, i've always wondered what if one of the big 3 would've bought kurzweil? (and kept the whole R&D departament)

[MrPillow]

all i would like to have in a killer board is 88 weighted keys, a huge base of sounds with basic editing capabilities, basic synth capabilities, live/performance oriented layering & volume control capabilities, cool data controllers (like the faders, ribbons & perhaps a Theremin-esque pad of sorts), improved polyphony capability and a more simplified interface (again, geared toward performan

You just more or less described the PC3 in a nutshell. Aside from the Theremin, and the interface, the PC3 has everything you mentioned. All that, at a price Kurzweil is estimating around $3000 MSRP, look at near $2,500 street.

Cheaper than a Fantom, Motif XS, or M3, capable of much more in many aspects.

The PC3 is very much a re-designed K2XXX, at a price anyone looking at a workstation can afford.

[infinityBBC]

[QUOTE=MrPillow]You just more or less described the PC3 in a nutshell. Aside from the Theremin, and the interface, the PC3 has everything you mentioned. All that, at a price Kurzweil is estimating around $3000 MSRP, look at near $2,500 street.

hey, thanks for suggesting i take a closer look at the PC3x. of course, i don't see that lovely ribbon controller which i have always loved. but if that's the ONLY drawback, perhaps i should hold off on purchasing a K2600X right now after all.

you also said "aside from the interface". i read on the Kurzweil page where the interface is supposedly "new and improved", but i always have to wonder what a keyboard design team THINKS is user friendly when it comes to interfaces! 8-)

it sure makes more sense to spend $2500 on a NEW keyboard than on a ~10 year old design!

thanks!

[infinityBBC]

i had this posted on another thread, but so far, no one has answered it, so i thought i'd post it here...


i've had my "fully loaded" K2500XS for about 10 years now. it's a great keyboard, but i've had one ongoing and recurring problem.

the key weights, of the keyboard assembly, keep breaking! this generally leaves the keys lacking to have their normal response that i like.

OK, yes, i'm somewhat of a heavy player, but it's not like i'm Ben Folds or something! 8-)

i've already spent hundreds of dollars having many fixed, and more continue to break. my local tech guy said that he investigated a bit about this and apparently i can get an "updated" keyboard assembly from Kurzweil for $600 which should take care of this problem. however, $600 is a LOT of money to spend on an old K2500XS.

i wonder if anyone knows about this issue, AND most importantly, if the K26000X keyboard assemblies are "upgraded" as well. i'm thinking of just picking up a K2600X and then fixing the few key weights currently broken on my K2500XS and selling it outright.

however, if the K2600X will have this same problem, perhaps it's time i look for something other than a Kurzweil...? (or, wait for the PC3x)

help would be most appreciated in this regard... thank you!

8-)

bbc

[MrPillow]

The PC3 has an entirely new keybed, manufactured by Fatar if my memory serves me correctly. Should fix this problem I would hope.

Also, the ribbon controller is lacking from the front panel, but there is the "super ribbon" input jack in the control section on the back so you can buy the "super ribbon", which cost around $49, and stick it on the front.


As for the UI, I'm not sure how much better it will be. The screen still looks to be smallish and monochromatic. I'll have to wait until I have a chance to try one out to see.

[Liquidkey]

i wonder if anyone knows about this issue, AND most importantly, if the K26000X keyboard assemblies are "upgraded" as well. i'm thinking of just picking up a K2600X and then fixing the few key weights currently broken on my K2500XS and selling it outright.
My K2600 was bought in 2003, never had any problems with it. Neither with the keys.

-Mikael

[infinityBBC]

hummm, now that you bring to light the ribbon controller option, it sounds like the PC3x just might be the way to go. curiously, do you know if it has any other optional controller inputs?

also, i'm presuming all the sound banks from the K2xxx series are forward compatible with the PC3x, thus still continuing the large sound library?

someone said i should also check out the new Korg M3, which is based on their more expensive "Oasis" sound libraries. any feedback on that unit? (perhaps it's already on one of these threads.)

i guess i'll have to go to a Guitar Center come Dec to compare all these. apparently, Kurzweil is offering this VA-1 upgrade for free through Dec, so i guess i'll want to take advantage of that if i stay with a Kurzweil board.

man, thanks for all your help!

[MrPillow]

Well, the PC3 has ended the backwards compatability run of the K series thanks to new programming and file systems. So no loading your K2600 library unfortunately. It can recreate all of the sounds though I would imagine.

The Kurzweil's currently predicted release is early January, so anything in December would be pre-order with no chance to try it out. If you want to risk it for the Va-1 option, go ahead.


As far as the M3, I'd stay far away. Most people much prefer the Triton over it, and it's build is said to be rather cheap, plasticky and not worth the money.

[infinityBBC]

it really sucks that Kurzweil is offering this Va-1 deal to only those who are willing to purchase their new PC3x without even trying it out! i think that warrants an email directly to Kurzweil!

if not the Korg M3, what other boards do you think are worth comparing with the PC3x?

what kind of board do you have... K2600?

[MrPillow]

I currently have a Fantom X. I don't think I can compare it directly to a PC3, but it's great in it's own right. Roland is supposedly coming out with something at this NAMM to compete with the PC3, M3, Motif XS etc. I'd just wait and see how all the new boards pan out over the new months before making any purchases.

[Fabian]

Very first time on this forum. I'm not sure how to navigate yet and is late, very tired. I do have a question for anybody who can help. I have a K2500X that started saying "low voltage" and now won't boot up at all. Does anyone know if there is a battery inside or just the AA outside? Thanks!


I've lately been looking into getting a K2600 rack for a few reasons. Mainly the Kurzweil piano, string, and other sounds I have wanted for a long time, but also the complexity and amazing sound abilities of the VAST system. However, alot of people seem to be saying the K2*00 series is getting old, outdated, and is no longer worth the money or the large learning curve. I don't think this is true, but it does make sense.

Is the K2600 still a potent and worthwhile synth? Is the technology growing old enough to where it is becomming hindered? I'm not much a fan of SCSI devices, never have been, but I am willing to get past that if the synth itself is all its hyped up to be.

Also, is the small display extremely hard to use? I understand it wont be a walk in the park like the Fantom, but is it really that much of a pain?

[mmichaelc]

Very first time on this forum. I'm not sure how to navigate yet and is late, very tired. I do have a question for anybody who can help. I have a K2500X that started saying "low voltage" and now won't boot up at all. Does anyone know if there is a battery inside or just the AA outside? Thanks!

I believe it only has the AA batteries, have you tried replacing them?

If so then you might have dodgy mains electricity.