So I want an electric piano....

[ensign]

I figured this would probably be a good forum to post this on, so....

I've been playing about 9 months now and this yamaha mobile keyboard isn't cutting it anymore. I want something with as close a feel to a real piano as possible. My price range is $500-$900 - preferably somewhere in the middle.

Now, here's my dilemma: I went to a music store and played a yamaha cp33 which I really liked. However, this unit is $1300 some from the music store... on ebay I can find a used one for $900 or less. Also, I was looking at the Kurzweil PC88 online and it seemed to be what I was looking for. Problem is, I can't find anywhere around here that has that unit on display... so I would be buying it without actually have played it, which I won't do. I would buy that from ebay slightly used for around $800-900ish. I just can't justify buying a brand new unit from a music store for a huge mark up price.

Anyways, I have heard good things about the Yamaha P-Series pianos.... The P70, P80, P90, P140. All of these are in the general range of price that I'm looking for... can anyone give me any insight as to how these compare to the CP33 I played? If anyone has any direction for me, feedback is welcome. Thank you very much.

[Omega Monkey]

For that budget you should just get an S80 or S90. You will get a lot more sounds that way, a lot more flexibility, and I dont think you will be missing anything.

[-=AnatomiC=-]

There is a huge difference between an electric piano and a digital piano.
What you need is a digital piano: always listen to OmegaMonkey :biggrin: used s80 and s90 are your best bets.

[ensign]

Thank you both for the input. I will check out those units you mentioned. Sorry for my newbness :(

[Azurlake]

You might find a Casio Privia for that price... maybe a PX100. They're quite good.

[Syrinx]

You might find a Casio Privia for that price... maybe a PX100. They're quite good.

+10. And regarding your budget you can afford PX-110, 310 or the new 200. I have the 110 myself. Not a gigging instrument by far, but for a home or studio it's perfectly fine. The keyboard's weighted feel is amazing and the piano sound is not bad at all if heard thru headphones/external monitors. Definitely more than adequate for practising/jamming. If you go for a new instrument, the Privia line is hard to ignore.

Having said that, you will get more from a used instrument, a used S80 or S90 is also a very good choice. Just be warned the user interface is not a walk in the park, but YMMV.

Best.

[Omega Monkey]

You might find a Casio Privia for that price... maybe a PX100. They're quite good.

Ewww! No!

[Syrinx]

Ewww! No!

Did you try it in person? The stereotypical Casio stigma doesn't apply to the Privia line IMO. The weighted action is great (talking about the PX-110 and the newer models), and the piano sample is on par if not better than what you find on the P70.
That said, the new Yamaha CP33, Roland FP-7, FP4 are in a different league, but also 3 times as expensive.

[Omega Monkey]

a used S80 or S90 is also a very good choice. Just be warned the user interface is not a walk in the park, but YMMV.

What? Yamaha has a great user interface on pretty much everything theyve put out in the last 17 years. Actually, my TG77 has a "jump" function which is one of the coolest things Ive ever seen that hasnt been on anything else that I know of (basically you type in a "page number" and can go right to whatever operation you want, very efficient for jumping back and forth between different menus).

The "modern" (ie EX5 and newer) Yamaha interface is about as simple and straightforward as you can get. All the menus/pages are laid out in a logical fashion, and there enough front panel buttons to get you where youre going without inducing carpal tunnel.

Did you try it in person?

Yeah. I wasnt impressed. If you can get an S80 or S90 in about the same price range, and get hundreds more sounds, a full featured sound engine that you can edit like crazy, PLG capability, Yamaha sound and build quality (is one of the best out there), why wouldn't you?

As far as I see it, the Privia's demographic is basically people that dont know about the S series, or are just REALLY damn cheap.

[Syrinx]

What? Yamaha has a great user interface on pretty much everything theyve put out in the last 17 years. Actually, my TG77 has a "jump" function which is one of the coolest things Ive ever seen that hasnt been on anything else that I know of (basically you type in a "page number" and can go right to whatever operation you want, very efficient for jumping back and forth between different menus).

The "modern" (ie EX5 and newer) Yamaha interface is about as simple and straightforward as you can get. All the menus/pages are laid out in a logical fashion, and there enough front panel buttons to get you where youre going without inducing carpal tunnel.

I don't like the Motif, Motif ES, S90, 90ES interface (XS interface I think is one of its best features), I find it convoluted and counter intuitive. But I also said YMMV, it's a highly subjective matter. Same for the SY77, which I also own. The time I need to spend to program a patch or even alter an existing one doesn't compare to software VSTs or some other harware workstations (e.g. Roland Fantom).


Yeah. I wasnt impressed. If you can get an S80 or S90 in about the same price range, and get hundreds more sounds, a full featured sound engine that you can edit like crazy, PLG capability, Yamaha sound and build quality (is one of the best out there), why wouldn't you?

As far as I see it, the Privia's demographic is basically people that dont know about the S series, or are just REALLY damn cheap.

You're comparing te S80/S90 with the Privia? Do I even need to say anything here? First, where on earth can you get the S90 for $450?
For me personally all I needed from the Privia is the weighted action to control my VST synth. If I ever need a better piano sound, there are several software options.

[Azurlake]

Yep, if you need a good piano, you've got good options out there, and you can also get a real piano, (not "RealPiano" LOL), because you'll never get the sound of a good real piano with synthesis. And the weighted action of the privia is really good, better than some expensive Roland digital pianos I've tried.

[Omega Monkey]

Well, there are several Privia models which range in price, naturally. The upper ones new are about what you would pay for a used S80 or S90 (which is $600-1000).

What I was saying is for not too much more, you could get something that would absolutel massacre the Privia, in terms of sound, feel, build quality, flexibility, power, etc... $200-400 isnt really that much when you think about what you are getting in return, which is a professional level instrument that will allow you to be taken seriously. Not to mention those Privias I think all have built in stands, because they are more directed at the home market. So forget taking it to gigs or rehearsals unless you have a minivan (or feel like taking it apart and putting it back together every time you move it).

There are SO many reasons NOT to get a Privia. Really the only tenuous reason to get one is for the low price. To which I will reply, you get what you pay for. And the Yamaha's are a better investment anyway, because (not that you would want to) if you ever decide to sell whatever you end up getting (either to upgrade, which would be a long time from now with the Yamaha or in 6 months-1 yr with the Privia, or because you got "bored with music" which would happen on about the same time frame), you will get a much higher percentage back on what you paid with the Yamaha(s). They are professional instruments, and professionals are willing to pay more for professional quality. Whereas the people who would buy a Privia, are by definition looking for something as cheap as possible, so your resale value tanks. S80s have hardly depreciated at all over the last 2 years, and this is a board that's close to 10 years old.

And I wouldnt get a real piano just yet. First of all, say goodbye to portability. You will need a crew of guys if you ever want to take it anywhere (or move to a new place). Second, say goodbye to flexibility. For obvious reasons, with an acoustic piano you get 1 sound and that's it. And say goodbye to your money. Even decent acoustic pianos cost several thousand dollars, even used. While they doa great job at the one job they do (being a piano), you should wait until you are more "settled" (both personally and musically) to buy one, when you have more income and can get something really nice (which will probably cost you $10K+). If you want to get the next best (worst) thing, go for a Yamaha CP70 or CP80, which were electric grand pianos from the late 70s and 80s, used by artists like Genesis and Peter Gabriel (but not while Gabriel was in Genesis, because they didnt exist at that time) and UK and a bunch of others. They sound awesome, but its a very specific sound and might not be right for everything. But they are (somewhat) more portable than a "real" piano, while still having a real harp and strings and pedal action like a "real" piano. Those will run you several hundred to a couple thousand probably, and you will still need at LEAST 2 people to carry the thing). There is also a similar Kawai instrument but Im not sure of the model name or anything (Ive only ever seen one but it was pretty nice).

Im telling you, you will NOT regret getting an S80 or S90. The extra money (if any) that you spend for one of these, you will realize to be worth it, if not immediately, then within 6 months to a year after purchase.

I would love to have one myself, I think I will ultimately have an S90ES, a Motif XS6, and a Fantom X6, along with a host of more specialized synths and keyboards.

[Azurlake]

Well, there are several Privia models which range in price, naturally. The upper ones new are about what you would pay for a used S80 or S90 (which is $600-1000).

What I was saying is for not too much more, you could get something that would absolutel massacre the Privia, in terms of sound, feel, build quality, flexibility, power, etc... $200-400 isnt really that much when you think about what you are getting in return, which is a professional level instrument that will allow you to be taken seriously. Not to mention those Privias I think all have built in stands, because they are more directed at the home market. So forget taking it to gigs or rehearsals unless you have a minivan (or feel like taking it apart and putting it back together every time you move it).

There are SO many reasons NOT to get a Privia. Really the only tenuous reason to get one is for the low price. To which I will reply, you get what you pay for. And the Yamaha's are a better investment anyway, because (not that you would want to) if you ever decide to sell whatever you end up getting (either to upgrade, which would be a long time from now with the Yamaha or in 6 months-1 yr with the Privia, or because you got "bored with music" which would happen on about the same time frame), you will get a much higher percentage back on what you paid with the Yamaha(s). They are professional instruments, and professionals are willing to pay more for professional quality. Whereas the people who would buy a Privia, are by definition looking for something as cheap as possible, so your resale value tanks. S80s have hardly depreciated at all over the last 2 years, and this is a board that's close to 10 years old.

And I wouldnt get a real piano just yet. First of all, say goodbye to portability. You will need a crew of guys if you ever want to take it anywhere (or move to a new place). Second, say goodbye to flexibility. For obvious reasons, with an acoustic piano you get 1 sound and that's it. And say goodbye to your money. Even decent acoustic pianos cost several thousand dollars, even used. While they doa great job at the one job they do (being a piano), you should wait until you are more "settled" (both personally and musically) to buy one, when you have more income and can get something really nice (which will probably cost you $10K+). If you want to get the next best (worst) thing, go for a Yamaha CP70 or CP80, which were electric grand pianos from the late 70s and 80s, used by artists like Genesis and Peter Gabriel (but not while Gabriel was in Genesis, because they didnt exist at that time) and UK and a bunch of others. They sound awesome, but its a very specific sound and might not be right for everything. But they are (somewhat) more portable than a "real" piano, while still having a real harp and strings and pedal action like a "real" piano. Those will run you several hundred to a couple thousand probably, and you will still need at LEAST 2 people to carry the thing). There is also a similar Kawai instrument but Im not sure of the model name or anything (Ive only ever seen one but it was pretty nice).

Im telling you, you will NOT regret getting an S80 or S90. The extra money (if any) that you spend for one of these, you will realize to be worth it, if not immediately, then within 6 months to a year after purchase.

I would love to have one myself, I think I will ultimately have an S90ES, a Motif XS6, and a Fantom X6, along with a host of more specialized synths and keyboards.

Obviously those keyboards (or electric pianos) are better, but believe me, I've got the PX-300 (which has no stand and it came with a soft travel case) and it's good enough for practicing classical piano songs... anyway, I'm about to get a Kurzweil PC1X or PC1, whose price has been reduced from 1650€ to 1050€ within the last two or three months.

[-=AnatomiC=-]

Yeah - I'm done with real acoustic pianos! They are pain in the ass! :mad:

No flexibility, no portability - very sensitive to environment: temperature/ moisture change, and they will go out of tune.
And I never liked upright piano sounds - a big grand, maybe...
I don't even say anything about prices - a very decent acoustic upright piano will cost around 3000-5000 euro! Same for digital pianos - you pay +-1000 more, just for the "looks" - which I never liked btw. Give me a futuristic looking synth :D...
And then people say that I'm crazy to spend so much on my gear... for the same price I could have 1 acoustic upright piano :confused:

Keyboards are flexible, compact, reliable, will never go out of tune and sound almost like the real thing!!! And you finally have YOUR OWN instrument, while real pianists have find a place where a piano is already installed.

Btw - there is an other good reason to get s90 instead of Privia. Mainly, because it's a synth and just more flexible.
s90 will probably take you music to a new level, because it has a greater variety of sounds: you can play piano, but you also can play other keyboard and synth sound.

[Omega Monkey]

I'm about to get a Kurzweil PC1X or PC1, whose price has been reduced from 1650€ to 1050€ within the last two or three months.


Exactly. If you had gone with say an S90 in the first place, you probably wouldnt even be thinking about an upgrade right now.

s90 will probably take you music to a new level, because it has a greater variety of sounds: you can play piano, but you also can play other keyboard and synth sound.

Exactly.

[Azurlake]

Yeah - I'm done with real acoustic pianos! They are pain in the ass! :mad:

No flexibility, no portability - very sensitive to environment: temperature/ moisture change, and they will go out of tune.
And I never liked upright piano sounds - a big grand, maybe...
I don't even say anything about prices - a very decent acoustic upright piano will cost around 3000-5000 euro! Same for digital pianos - you pay +-1000 more, just for the "looks" - which I never liked btw. Give me a futuristic looking synth :D...
And then people say that I'm crazy to spend so much on my gear... for the same price I could have 1 acoustic upright piano :confused:

Keyboards are flexible, compact, reliable, will never go out of tune and sound almost like the real thing!!! And you finally have YOUR OWN instrument, while real pianists have find a place where a piano is already installed.

Btw - there is an other good reason to get s90 instead of Privia. Mainly, because it's a synth and just more flexible.
s90 will probably take you music to a new level, because it has a greater variety of sounds: you can play piano, but you also can play other keyboard and synth sound.

Yeah, that's right... but not 100%. Playing in a real piano is always more recomforting than playing in any other thing; the feeling is just great. All the harmonics, the sound of the dampers when you push the sustain pedal, the sound of the hammer action, knowing that no matters how hard or piano you hit the keys, you'll never reach the maxium or minimum; the notes deep inside you. Of course, all of that is better if you play in a Bossendorfer or a Steinway xD and, I don't know why, but is easy to play in one of those pianos than in an electric piano. It's not just playing notes, it's trying to get a good sound, and each pianist has his own sound... and that's quite difficult with piano synthesis.

[-=AnatomiC=-]

It's not just playing notes, it's trying to get a good sound, and each pianist has his own sound... and that's quite difficult with piano synthesis.

Yeah - trying to get a good sound, literally!
With synths it's easy to get the sound you want, no?
You can have a mellow or a bright piano, you can color it with some effects (such as synth pad background sound), you can add delay and reverb, you can equalize the notes. You can even add this keyboard push sound (which you already have, because it's hammer mechanics :biggrin: ), string resonance... basically everything you'll ever need/want.
You can even multi sample your favorite piano, and make a complex patch out of it! (if you are a professional audio engineer and have your own studio :biggrin: )
A "patch" has limitation (e.g. "only" 4 stereo multi sample tones per patch), but if you use performance/combo mode where you can stack up to 16 patches, the possibilities are limitless! :smile:

While piano has only 1 sound possible, and probably won't be good for something specific.
I don't argue - it is a real thing, and nothing will beat it. I just like digital stuff more, that's all :smile: 99% of the people, including me, won't even notice, btw. Unless they'll think that piano sounds just perfect for the context

[Omega Monkey]

I will just add, if realism is what you are after in a piano sound, you cant get much better than the S90 (or especially the S90ES or the Motif XS).

[ensign]

Are S80s or S90s in the $800 range? How about an P70? How are the S series different than the P series?

[-=AnatomiC=-]

Are S80s or S90s in the $800 range? How about an P70? How are the S series different than the P series?

Used are, if you are lucky to find one - but I guess it's worth it.
Privia and P serie are +- the same thing.

[Omega Monkey]

Used are, if you are lucky to find one

Yeah, I think Ive seen S80s for as low as $650 or so, S90s usually around $900 (but SO worth it). And you don't have to be that lucky. Just look on ebay for at least 2 weeks and at LEAST 1 of each should show up. My advice would be to follow ebay for about a month or 2 and also look at the completed items to see what kind of conditions they are in and what kind of prices they get for that condition. Then figure out what you want to pay and what condition you want and wait for one that meets those criteria.

[ensign]

Just letting everyone know that I chose to purchase a yamaha SO8. I wasn't aware that they stopped making the S80 so I felt like an ass asking the guy if they had any, apparently it's just a cheap alternative to an S80/90, etc but still has a lot of bang for the buck... Anyways, I am very happy with it so far and look forward to expanding my horizons with it. Thanks to all who helped me find a purchase.

[Omega Monkey]

Yeah, an S08 is not a bad choice either, its just a bit more scaled down than the S80.