Doubt about future in music... :(

[Mental Floss]

This is a personal story I want to share, because I'm uncertain about my musical future and would value the opinions of fellow musicians... so be warned. ;-)

The past year I've dedicated to trying to be admitted to the conservatory (direction: composition, music- and studioproductions); I wrote several compositions and tried to train my relative pitch. Besides that, I held a crappy parttime job to pay the rent and my food.

Three weeks ago was the audition, and I got rejected. Completely.

So, this was kind of a painful experience, and now that I'm sure I won't be a professional composer/musician, I have my doubts over whether/how to continue incorporating music in my life. As you can imagine, last year music WAS my life, so there will have to be some major changes.

My main doubt is whether to continue making music at all. Because, if I lack talent as much as these conservatory guys wanted me to believe, it would be rather futile to invest so much time into something I'll never be good at.
On the other hand, music IS my main passion and I couldn't imagine life without it.

My doubts about my (lack of) musical talent are mainly based on my bad relative pitch. I have about 70% accuracy on interval determination (on a good day) when using Earmaster, this after months of training. I can figure out melodies, though it takes me some time, but I'm really bad at chord progressions and bass lines. Practice doesn't seem to help much.

So there it is... can I be musical without having the hearing skills all other musicians seem to have? Or could it still be possible for me to learn, and have I perhaps been practising in the wrong ways? Or should I perhaps accept the fact that this is not for me...

Sorry for the long rant... but any response would be greatly appreciated. I really want to know if other musicians have been through the same, or what your thoughts on this dillema are.

[Deceit]

Three weeks ago was the audition, and I got rejected. Completely.
Conservatories are never objective. Where I live, they would take very few candidates, according to the year they're enrolling in.
A good friend of mine tried two different auditions, he's an outstanding classical guitarist. He's always been rejected with very high results by the way, because he was enrolling for the fifth year. The admission test does not value your absolute worth as a musician.
So, this was kind of a painful experience, and now that I'm sure I won't be a professional composer/musician, I have my doubts over whether/how to continue incorporating music in my life. As you can imagine, last year music WAS my life, so there will have to be some major changes.
I do understand. Have you tried some kind of piano course at the conservatory? Maybe the music production and composition course was almost full...
Are there professional music schools and other conservatories in your area?

My main doubt is whether to continue making music at all. Because, if I lack talent as much as these conservatory guys wanted me to believe, it would be rather futile to invest so much time into something I'll never be good at.
On the other hand, music IS my main passion and I couldn't imagine life without it.
Music can be lived as a passion in very many ways. You can try and attend a sound engineer course, it is a very interesting program and you're still into music. There are many professional roles orbiting around the musician, if your passion is sincere then I'm sure you'll find a way.
Talent is something very subjective and vague. Don't lose your self-esteem. What does talent mean? Accuracy, speed? Composing 127-chord songs instead of 8-chord songs? Talent is something you train. It's no gift and you're never late. We call talented those people who have spent all their life since they were four years old, sitting on a piano bench and training hard most of the times, devoting themselves to that one thing.
This reminds me of Salieri's dilemma as potrayed in Shaffer's "Amadeus". The first thing Mozart's father did is giving his son a violin. Salieri had to wait for his late adolescence to ever study music.
Salieri has trained the best pianists and composers ever by the way.
My doubts about my (lack of) musical talent are mainly based on my bad relative pitch. I have about 70% accuracy on interval determination (on a good day) when using Earmaster, this after months of training. I can figure out melodies, though it takes me some time, but I'm really bad at chord progressions and bass lines. Practice doesn't seem to help much.
And so what? Does that make you a bad musician? There are widely renowned classical pianists which would barely know how to improvise without a score under their eyes. Does that make them bad musicians? I guess I understand when I play a note out of tune. Does that make me a good musician? No.

Ok, maybe your ear is not absolute and you're not keen at recognising intervals. Maybe you'll never conduct the London Philarmonic, because most of the conductors do have absolute ear (well, this is an uncredited religious belief). But you can make good music with some teaching.

So there it is... can I be musical without having the hearing skills all other musicians seem to have? Or could it still be possible for me to learn, and have I perhaps been practising in the wrong ways? Or should I perhaps accept the fact that this is not for me...
There's always time to learn anything. I don't believe in innate musical genius and all those innatist fantasies.
Someone with absolute pitch is most of the times (with exceptions) one who has had the luck of being born in a very musical family and has been sitting on an instrument since the early childhood years.

I do not live music as a professional, I try and do my best to record at home and help out my bands. If they ever come to a serious contract I probably wouldn't sign as that is not my career.
The way I found most suitable for me to express my passion for music is learning electronics and trying my best to earn a degree. I'm not even the best but I do my best and it's been enough so far. If your passion and your efforts are constant then you may become even better than the "gifted" ones. Genius is a 25% of the total. A good 74% is hard work and that 1% is luck.

IMHO you should find the time and money to take some harmony lessons from a qualified teacher. A friend of mine is preparing his audition at the local conservatory and some of the tests require an average knowledge of harmony.
Also, think about the traditional piano course if you haven't.
Deceit.

[ffox]

Hey,

Don't give up. Isn't there a preparatory training at the conservatory, so you can catch up with your eartraining 'at ease'?

I did audition for piano & jazz, the practical audition went well, I also passed for theory but failed the ear test by a few tenths (notation and chordprogressions to be my weak points), anyway if I will fail it again, I will go for the preparatory course.

Good luck!

[Mental Floss]

Thanks for your reply, Deceit. Made me feel better. :)

I have in fact been having piano lessons at the music school in my city for the last four years (taught myself the basics in about half a year before that). The last year my teacher and I have mainly been focussing on ear training and he gave me a good chance to be admitted...

Maybe the music production and composition course was almost full...

Well, they do only admit about 10% of the candidates, so there's some truth in that... I can't say I really mind they didn't like my music, for about the same reasons you said. They're not objective and they can't be, for music isn't math. I can still feel good about what I write without them liking it.

And I agree with your opinion about talent; I also think the most important part lies in practice and passion, not innate skills. But the problem for me is that I have in fact been practicing alot, and I still feel my skills in the 'hearing department' are far below level.

Ok, maybe your ear is not absolute and you're not keen at recognising intervals. Maybe you'll never conduct the London Philarmonic, because most of the conductors do have absolute ear (well, this is an uncredited religious belief). But you can make good music with some teaching.

I know I don't have perfect pitch, and that doesn't bother me at all. I know plenty of great musicians don't have that. What does bother me is my lack of relative pitch, for I feel that most musicians do have that... and I also feel I can't be a good composer if I can't even hear what's going on in other people's music.

The way I found most suitable for me to express my passion for music is learning electronics and trying my best to earn a degree.

What sort of education is that...? Sound engineering?

[Mental Floss]

Hey,

Don't give up. Isn't there a preparatory training at the conservatory, so you can catch up with your eartraining 'at ease'?

I did audition for piano & jazz, the practical audition went well, I also passed for theory but failed the ear test by a few tenths (notation and chordprogressions to be my weak points), anyway if I will fail it again, I will go for the preparatory course.

Good luck!

You have to be admitted for the preparatory course as well, and... they didn't. I suppose they didn't think I could ever learn it.

I see you're Dutch too... where did you do audition?

[ffox]

You have to be admitted for the preparatory course as well, and... they didn't. I suppose they didn't think I could ever learn it.

I see you're Dutch too... where did you do audition?

Artez Conservatorium, Zwolle.

[Deceit]

What sort of education is that...? Sound engineering?
Not that easy lol ;) it's a 5 years degree in electronic engineering. Which teaches you all the basics about analog and digital design. In the end, all the apparel we use each day to perform and record has been designed by qualified electronic and computer engineers. In addition, you even get the chance to lose interest in music (blasphemy! - NO! This is SPARTAAAAA) and end up doing something else with good incomes.
Deceit.

[Mental Floss]

Not that easy lol ;) it's a 5 years degree in electronic engineering. Which teaches you all the basics about analog and digital design. In the end, all the apparel we use each day to perform and record has been designed by qualified electronic and computer engineers. In addition, you even get the chance to lose interest in music (blasphemy! - NO! This is SPARTAAAAA) and end up doing something else with good incomes.
Deceit.

Okay... sounds interesting. :)

[cooltothez]

you know its kind of interesting, i realized that my future in music is looking less than probable recently. its hitting me pretty hard, i havent applied to a music program, because i am really debating on if it will be worth it... i guess all that matters is that you enjoy music; you dont have to be at the forefront, or be admitted to a conservatory to have a future in music. just becauser you dont have an ear yet doesnt mean anything,you'll get there...
keep on keepin on man.

[King_Ellesar]

dude, OF COURSE you can still make music! don't let anybody tell you what you can do and can't do. if your passion is making music, why would some admissions people keep you from doing that? why let a "70% accuracy on interval determination" keep you from doing that? sure, having good interval determination is a big help...but it isn't required to be a musician! maybe it's required to get into some conservatory...but going to a conservatory isn't the only way to learn music or to make your own!


i'm in a similar situation, actually. well, as far as learning how to keep music a part of my life. I'm pursuing other things as far as how to make a living and a career eventually, and as of right now...music isn't that.

but what music is for me is like an outlet. it's like therapy. i do it for fun (not to imply that i don't take it seriously). i write my own stuff when i find the time, jam with friends, and maybe someday will be gigging live with a couple friends of mine, playing original material. i don't have any prestigious education in music at all. i just take it in as it comes. there are so many other ways you can learn, man.

the tough part though, i think, is deciding if you want to make music your career, or something else. this still bothers me from time to time, and i am still a little torn between the two.

in either case, if you have a dream...don't let anybody especially admissions offices and similar people tell you what you can or can't do. sure, they can reject you from their college, institution, or whatever...but don't let it get you down. don't give up on it just because of that.

if you have a dream, and really feel that music is where you want to be, is what will make you happy, keep goin for it. you can still get there, just sometimes you might have to look for other ways...not everybody gets there by the same route.

[Piranha]

I wish I could go in sound engineering, but that college program obliges to go through music programs first.

[RobD]

I wish I could go in sound engineering, but that college program obliges to go through music programs first.

That's becoming the norm. I just left college and they introduced this year for new aplicants an entry test/exam for their musical knowledge. I think it's fair, because engineering without any knowledge of music theory just makes things that bit more difficult.

But I've found that going into sound engineering has made my creativity shoot through the roof. Not only because it's given me an idea of the possiblities of things that can be done if you put your mind to it, but also so you don't sink to the level of the same old generic drivel you get to record week in week out. :P

It's also opened my mind up to many other types of music, mostly within film/tv and synthesis based music and then combining all these styles that I listen to and love to make something interesting to me.

[dech2410]

Artez Conservatorium, Zwolle.

That´s your fault XD!!! Go to Den Haag or Rotterdam man... Way better

[Analogkid]

Better to have wicked chops than great technique any day of the week. Look at the old blues men like Redbone, muddy waters, jack johnson etc- those dudes didnt know shit about proper fingers or all these different scales but they played often and knew how to get the most out of their guitars and how to convey how they felt. Hell even Keith Emerson said a wrong note played with enough conviction can get a crowd on their feet. Never give up if you love it, just realize you might want to pay the bills with a regular job in the mean while.

[jkwheel]

Better to have wicked chops than great technique any day of the week. Look at the old blues men like Redbone, muddy waters, jack johnson etc- those dudes didnt know shit about proper fingers or all these different scales but they played often and knew how to get the most out of their guitars and how to convey how they felt. Hell even Keith Emerson said a wrong note played with enough conviction can get a crowd on their feet. Never give up if you love it, just realize you might want to pay the bills with a regular job in the mean while.

I have to agree wholeheartedly. I have toured with a Very talented blues guitarist and I met a lot of the legends in blues, I have to tell you I had more music conversations about chords that ended with the artist showing me the neck of his guitar rather than actually knowing what the specific chord was. The funny thing about that is that after I decided to not be a legitamite musician (I guess I became an illegitamite musician) I wound up working more and making more money in music than when I was "reaching" for the big breaks.
Here's the thing. As soon as you give up you will have that nagging feeling of what might have been. From what you have said, one place told you no thanks. I hope you are more persistent in other things, I have been told no wayyyy more times than I have been told yes.
I gues that can be your litmus test. If you are satisfied giving it up now than mabybe your commitment isn't as strong as you think. But if there is any thought of continuing I would say to continue until you absolutely can't
Good luck to you

[SerFox]

You arent alone. I posted a similar thing here a while back, and Ive recntly gone through being really sad.

I know for a fact I'll never be near the best, near JR or anything like that, but because of my vision propblems, music is my only possible career option, I find things far too difficult that involve vision and ive been laid off for being slow at a job becuas eof my vision before.

All I want to be is 'good enough to be accepted as good', I don't want to be the best. I know it's highly unlikely ill ever be.

I just want to be able to make something of my life in music. I've oined the musicians union, and im attending networking events soon regarding it. And I'm gonna try for some kind of job soon. If I get rejected, I'll not back down, but if for a long time all my attemp[ts get rejected...

...I dunno. I'm just... scared I won't be able to do anything substantial to even make some kind of ... impavct, however minor.

It's just really hard to know if you'll be good enough or if theres point carrying on, but it's all I have so thats all I can do.