Fantom Users - pedal/switch question

[MrPillow]

It wasn't until recently it hit me that the Fantom only has 2 pedal jacks, and I've been thinking this is going to stir up some problems when I get mine within the next month or so. If I want to change my programs with a footswitch, and have a sustain pedal and volume/expression, thats 3 pedals. How would I go about running that? Would I need to get an inline volume like the Ernie Balls, and use the non-sustain jack for the program change, or can you run a 2-1/4" to 1-1/4" Y adapter and use 2 pedals from one jack? How does anyone here who uses a Fantom set up their pedals and whatnot?

[-=AnatomiC=-]

Didn't you want to buy Motif XS?

Btw - yeah, it has only 1 sustain and 1 controller jack, which is one of it's cons IMO.
Now, I never use volume pedal, so it's not really a problem for me. And even for changing patches I prefer to use RPS with lower keys - gives much more freedom IMO.
But I don't see how you could connect both sustain, volume and control pedals.

Unless.... I heard there is some kind of a Midi pedal, that can change every setting if you connect it via MIDI input.
I don't know how it's on other boards, but patch change could be better IMO. It does sustain sound (and that's the most important thing) but there is not enough parameters you can change with a pedal. For instance - you change a patch with a pedal, but the original volume or cutoff remain: but the next patch should have other cutoff and volume value!
That's why I use RPS instead - 1 key = as much setting changes as you want. So you can change both patch, volume, cutoff and any other parameter: you can even change the parameters of a patch - like in a middle of a song, you press 1 key and you change all waveforms of a patch.

[SerFox]

A good idea would be to buy (Or build) a stereo volume pedal. Since I have my fantom set up for sustain and patch copntrol, I have a side minimixer attached to it with all the outputs connected, so I can send things to different channels and mix then while performing, and also I will be getting a stereo volume control, and a wah pedal. I combine this with a laptop running reason 3.0 and a midi controller (a old yamaha) running through my fantom, bypassing it, and using the fantoms' usb to go into the laptop.


So to answer the question: get an inline volume pedal, preferably analogue. Better control.

[MrPillow]

Your post in my GC thread changed my mind. I was obsessing too much over sounds and other yada yada that wasn't very important, just flashy at first use. I'd been eyeing the fantom for months so I decided to stick with that.

I'd never though of using lower keys for patch changes, that sounds like a much better idea than a pedal, plus would free up my other jack for a expression/wah. I do believe I'll go with that setup.

[Guardian]

how can you change programs with a key?

[FRETPICK]

how can you change programs with a key?

Good question.

[-=AnatomiC=-]

Your post in my GC thread changed my mind. I was obsessing too much over sounds and other yada yada that wasn't very important, just flashy at first use. I'd been eyeing the fantom for months so I decided to stick with that

You have to know what you need of course... I don't say Motif XS is not good - no, it's very good, but it's not what I need. Don't blame me if you not happy with it btw Besides the new one should come out every second now! :biggrin:

How to change programs with keys? It's tricky, really. I don't think RPS was designed for it, since nobody mentioned it in "RPS tips and tricks". I was my own idea, though I'm not the only one using it.
I'm sure everybody has seen this short videos Jordan playing Oasys - he uses this technique while he demonstrates the guitar patch.

First - you create "a song".
Then you have 100 patterns which you can use use per song in your sequencer, and every pattern you can assign to a independent key or pad button.
The best part: RPS won't only memories the notes, but also knob tweaks and even setting changes: an instrument you use per part, volume, cutoff etc - pretty much everything.
So if you press record and then make all changes you need, RPS will capture it, and you will be able to assign all to a key.
To make it smooth and quick, lower your tempo to 5 bpm while you record and do a detailed microedit afterwards.

Pros:
You can change as many settings as you want.
You can use every key as an assignable switch (even better), it's really useful when you are using your joystick and you need to change something really quick.
-"- change your settings in every order you. No just from 1 to 10 but you can go from 1 to 5 and then back to 4 for example.
You have an unlimited amount of space. While Fantom has only 64 user performances (+64 on a card), you would run out of space very soon if you would use 1 performance for every slight setting change. A song has 100 patterns, and you can have unlimited amount of song, so you won't have to deal with lack of space.

Cons:
You loose your left or right arm for few hundreds of milliseconds.
It will only work in a song mode.
It takes a really long time to program
You have limited amount of keys - 1 pattern = setting change = 1 key
You have to memories it all, and hit it right otherwise you are screwed.

This is only possible on a keyboard with Real Time Phrasing (RPS), like Fantom or Oasys. I heard Motif XS had it also... but I'm not sure

PS: now that I'm thinking about it, it's maybe even possible to cycle through the patterns, using a pedal, since you can assign 1 pattern to a pedal. Maybe this pattern can contain a midi message with "play next pattern" or something... I'll will ask it on Fantomized forum.
You would have all advantages of a pedal change, with flexibility of RPS!!!

[Guardian]

ok, so RP
btw, k2600 can do it too :wink:

[-=AnatomiC=-]

k2600 has is too? Okay - so you can use this technique there too :biggrin:

Btw - I've tried to make my idea work, and unfortunately it can't be done :rolleyes: Because you can't assign a pattern to a pedal. I though it was possible to assign a pattern to one of the pads, and assign a pedal to trigger a pad. But there is no such setting.
Maybe an unorthodox method: you could assign a pattern to the D-beam and trigger it with your head... lol

That's what I wanted to say - pedal control option are so limited on this thing, while almighty RPS can do everything!
Why can't you trigger patterns with a pedal, it would enlarge the possibilities of a pedal by 10 000% !!! And it's not hard to make!
I'm going to think a little more about it... there is got be a way! A midi pedal maybe?

[Guardian]

im really disapointed in roland

1. if you check out rolandus web page, and try to find tech specs about the fantom...ill bow to you...
secondly..... can someone give me a resanoble explanation to this question:
Fantom X and Roland RD700SX seem to be 2 keyboards, that were released...pretty close (in time period).
ok, so, why does the fantom have only 2 pedal inputs(rd has 3), and, why doesnt rd have aftertouch (while fantom has it, not to mention...M1 or DX7 had aftertouch 20 yrs ago)
it really gets on my nerves, that..."incompetent" development, like theyre doing it on purpose... :mad:

[MrPillow]

The RD is a stage piano, focused mainly on piano playing. The 3 pedal jacks are to accomodate the 3 standard piano pedals, and the lack of aftertouch is as far as I can see, because pianos have no aftertouch.

[HammondToby]

The lack of aftertouch might be a technical thing. The Kawai MP-Series stage pianos don't have aftertouch, because of the mechanical situation of the keybed: the hammers are striking the contacts for the notetrigger, after that, the hammer is reacting like on a real piano: where should it trigger the afertouch? May be, it's a simmilar situation within the RD?

Best regards
HammondToby

[-=AnatomiC=-]

It doesn't have after touch because only piano and regular keyboard players buy it. Pianos, EPs, organs don't have/need after touch. VK series do not have after touch also, can you call it incompetence?
It has 3 pedals to compensate lack of a sequencer and other stuff.

But why Fantom doesn't have 3, beats me...
Maybe it's because it has D-beam ("cool") and it's considered to be the 3rd controller.

I don't mind that anyway - I almost never use even 1, so...

[Guardian]

hm, ok, makes sence :biggrin: