Help to buy

[maafen]

Hi

I was planing on buying a new keyboard, but i don't know what i want. Is it possible to get a Keyboard only to stay in "bypass", and have a pedal board to control all the effects? Is that worth it at all, or should i just buy a synth? And what is the difference between a midi-keyboard and a synth? I also like many of the solo sounds Jordan use, and would like to have some of them as well. I am able to spend 4,000 USD. Can any one help me with this?

[-=AnatomiC=-]

Hello

I'll spare your time - buy Korg Oasys and you will have everything... :biggrin:
And you will have 5 000 left...

No - serious, I don't recommend to spend so much money when you don't even know the basics of keyboards.
Synthesizer has sounds and can produce new sounds.
Midi-controller doesn't have any sounds, it's made to control other musical applications via MIDI cables, like modules, PCs and other keyboards.
Notice that the most synthesizer could be MIDI-controllers also, some of them very good midi-controllers even.

But if you do want to spend that much, the most workstation cost +- 3000 $
Check them out:

Korg Oasys
Kurzweil 2600xs
Roland Fantom x8
Korg M3
Korg Triton Extreme
Yamaha Motif XS

[maafen]

Oups... i calculated wrong :biggrin: didn't mean that much. And thanx by the way. I'll check them out. But you don't know about some synths without drum kits? I don't need it. I rather want many cool sounds. I'll use this for band playing.

[-=AnatomiC=-]

Ah, ok - it's still a very big budget. You will be able to get every keyboard from my list (except Korg Oasys - 8000 USD).

Korg Oasys is his main keyboard today...

Jordan used Kurzweil 2600xs for a very long time. I think, he used only his Kurzweil from the beginning (of him in Dream Theater), Liquid Tension Experiment, till Octavarium (not included).
He used Korg Triton Extreme for his Rhythms of Time album.
He sometimes plays on his Fantom x8 - when he makes promotional gigs for Roland.
He also uses it for studio recordings.

He never used Motif and M3 very much - he did a demo for M3 recently btw.

[maafen]

What about an amplifier? Are there any special amplifiers made for keyboards? Do you have any suggestions?

[-=AnatomiC=-]

You mean monitors?
Sure... but it depends on your needs...

If you have a band, I suggest some powerful monitors, at least 400 watt each. Can be expensive.
If you only play at home, 25-75 watt amp would be enough. Not expensive, yet good quality.

I recommend Mackie (http://www.mackie.com/products/studiomonitors/index.html) - they make the best monitors, my previous band had 2 SRM450: amazing.

Loudspeakers = big monitors for gigs
Studio monitoring = smaller monitors for home

Notice that "passive" monitors require additional power amp.
"Active" monitors have an internal amplifier.

You should ask someone else about good studio monitors, because I don't have them myself :rolleyes: I have to practice with headphones anyway, so It doesn't really matter.

[maafen]

Isn't 400w very much? Do you mean for live playing, or..?
I was thinking about "Hartke KM200". When the band practice i have used a 90w monitor, and it gives me much, but not realy enough sound.

[djpacman]

Behringer makes a nice selection of keyboard amplifiers found here


http://www.behringer.com/02_products/ftsearch1.cfm?lang=eng&SEARCH1=KEYBOARD%20GEAR

They are always best priced for the money

[-=AnatomiC=-]

If I would buy monitors, I would go for Mackie Sa1521: there is a large discount in MusicStore for them btw. 2 monitors = 800 W.

But I'm talking about medium gigs -+ 400 people. A size of a medium club.
And I'm talking about being solo performer - if you are alone, you need more power. Okay - you had 90w, but there is also an amp for guitar player, bass player, drums are loud... no?

Damn - it's hard being solo performer. You really need the most expensive an sophisticated stuff to compensate the lack of other members :frown:

Besides - 1 monitor will give mono sound, and all keyboard work in stereo mode, which will decrease the quality of the sound. And buy a premium keyboard and not letting it work for its full potential because of a bad PA system is just stupid.
So you need atleast 2 monitors.
You probably already knew this: just in case.

[maafen]

Ok, I've been doing some research, and came up with Kurzweil 2600xs. It is a very good keyboard, but since Jordan used it since Liquid Tention, it is quite old. I guess i can get new and better technology for the same price today, or do the keyboards get upgraded too? So that if i buy the same today, i get a better keyboard then Jordan had?

[-=AnatomiC=-]

So that if i buy the same today, i get a better keyboard then Jordan had?

Unfortunately: no.
Keyboards do get some updates and you have expansion cards etc but it doesn't upgrades the keyboard very much.
If you take k2600xs you will have the same keyboard Jordan had when he did LT experiment.

Some people don't mind paying the same amount of money for something, while you can get a much more up to date technology with the same money.
Don't get me wrong - it's one of the best keyboards there is, but it's outdated, and the price of it only rises.

It's kinda lame, huh?

P.S: A very low amount of polyphony is a very weak point of k2600xs IMO.
It has only 48 voices, while the standard for today is at least 128.
And even 128 is not that much: some complex sounds (like pads) can eat up to 8 voices per note, because if often have 4 stereo layers and a very slow release - if you play pad chords with 2 hands you will reach the maximum (128) in no time.

If you play in a band, you won't mind it probably, but if you are a solo performer you will hate it.

[HammondToby]

Hm... it's a matter of programming, if you get along with these 48 voices. Longsustained pianoparts happen to me like once on a whole gig. And pads? Hm: one voice per played note, because the K2600-line can create up to three DSP-voices, so I've got one sample (may be a stringsample) and three sawoscs... enough for a good pad. Play a bit with the voiceallocation, and you can easily sustain the pad for 10 minutes and play a sustained pianosolo on top...

Two points against the Kurzweils: the pricetag, you allready mentioned. And a very long time, to get used to all these possibillities. The rest is a matter of what you want to do... Sure, it's no OASYS, but to me, it sounds more conveniant... a matter of taste, ofcourse.

Best regards
HammondToby

[-=AnatomiC=-]

Yeah - about voices. I knew there was some kind of trick to "expand" it.
I was talking about polyphony on FX - there is no way you can play multiple voices, using only 1.
Kurz polyphony can be larger than 48, while for example on FX it's 128 - period.

And like I said - for a band kurz' polyphony is more than enough.

[keyslord]

K2600XS is a great instrument and it goes very deep into sound creation!But it is very difficult and complex for you to learn and use at least the 50% of its capabilities because from what you said, you know nothing about synths and synthesis, you don't even know the difference between midi keyboard and synthesizer.I suggest you buy a triton extreme which is easier and more ergonomic than K2600 and it has beautiful sounds.Also you can download Jordan's lead patches for Triton from the internet.

[maafen]

But how old is the Triton? If it is as old as the K2600, i don't think I'll buy it. But I'm sure it's a grate keyboard though.

By the way, "Drive K300 300 Watt 1x15 4-Channel Keyboard Amplifier", is this something to recomand? And i don't play on big shows and pubs very much, and if I do, there are often good amps and monitors there already:biggrin: Still, 300w is a lot sound!

[-=AnatomiC=-]

Triton Extreme was released in 2004
Kurz k2600 also in 1999

You should see for your self what's outdated and what's not.
Kurz k2600 still hasn't a successor, so actually it's not right to say that it's outdated.

[keyslord]

Don't judge a synth only from how old it is.K2600 is as old as Triton.Triton extreme uses the same synthesis engine that used to use in Triton classic.But I suggest you buy a triton or its successor, the m3, because they are not so expensive and more easy to handle.