Korg Karma

[Martin]

Hi everyone!
I enter a new band since the end of August, and I'm really lookin' for a synth. Actually I use a GEM WK1 to play with them, but at home I also have a Generalmusic digital piano (the problem is.. it's structure is built like an upright piano.. so it's quite impossible to take it around :) )

Lookin' around I find the Korg Karma, and I think is a really great instrument!! ;) Not only to play in a band (also with the KARMA technology off), but also to use it at home and have fun and inspiration :) (the great KARMA technology! :) )

Now.. I'd like to know what do you think of this keyboard.. also comparing it with the Triton (that have all the things I need I think.. don't worry I don't really need a sampler! :) I think that's the great difference between the two keyboards).

So.. to all Karma owners and everyone who ever used it.. how is the feeling and how are the keys to play?
Wich banks are filled with Triton sounds?

Ah... last questions.. ;P ... but with the KARMA Technology off....
Comparing the Karma with the Triton.. I know with the Triton is possible to put in sequence some sounds in a combi and then change them by using a switch pedal.. is the same on the Karma?
And speaking of effects... with the Karma is possible to edit sounds with effects like the Triton? For example creating a distortion.. and similar?


Really thank you everyone! :)
I really want to be sure if the Karma is the right synth for me.. I quite love it :) but unluckily i can't have the opportunity to try it very soon..
Sorry for the many questions!

[Over The Edge]

It's a great board and I do wish I had one. I find the Karma features to be pretty inspiring. Right out of the box, you hold a chord down in Combi mode with it on and viola, instant inspiration. Lots of glissandos, power drum rhythms, arps galore and it seems as though there is very little in the way of repetition. The sounds are identical to the Triton so that might be a plus or not for you depending on your perspective.


I like it a lot though.


FL
www.franklucas.net

[Scrap]

Hey Martin, check out section 4.1 of the Gear Talk FAQ on information regarding the differences between the Karma and Triton.

They share the same PCM sound data, so while you may not have completely identical Programs out of the box, you can simply load Triton Programs into the Karma and they will work properly because the source waves for these Programs are available in the Karma sound ROM, though the Karma and Triton share about 97% of the same preloaded Program data.

They also use the same sound engine and effects engines. Anything that can be done on a Triton, minus sampling, can be done on a Karma (and much more, actually, because KARMA gives you 2 additional envelopes to control, as well as features like chord scan, and all of its insane real-time controls). I'm a Karma owner myself (as you can probably tell from my icon ;)), and I've been very, very pleased with it. I wouldn't trade it for anything else out there at the moment.

[Over The Edge]

Oh yeah,

at just 20 pounds, the Karma is perfect for the gigging musician.


FL
www.franklucas.net

[Martin]

Eheheh :)
Thank you very much for your help! :D
I took a look at the FAQs.. sorry if I didn't checked them before :oops:

Yes Scrap.. I know you're a Karma user also because I saw on the old board your gear's photos :) Have you got other photos from the Karma? The problem is that I can't try this keyboard very soon.. and I wanted to get a "deep" idea of the instrument... in case I never try it so I can decide if buy it as well (sorry for my English :P ) I know it's great and it could be enough :)

If you have other photos of your Karma at home... it would be very nice if you could post or send me them :)

Also thank you Frank for your posts! :)

Bye!

[Martin]

ohhhhh just check them out from the "New Setup" thread :)
Great!! 8)

[Scrap]

Hey Martin. If you're interested in audio demos, check out karma-lab.com. There's a wide variety of links there, demonstrating individual program sounds as well as combinations, and so on. Be sure to check out the Planet KARMA demo as well.

[Over The Edge]

I wonder if Korg will announce an updated version of the Karma at the next NAMM show since they have all but pulled them off the shelves at a lot of music stores.

Does anyone know anything about this?


FL
www.franklucas.net

[Martin]

I'll give a look at Karma-Lab :)
I've Planet Karma.. it's simply amazing :) and i really like on the karma acoustic sounds like spanish guitar, but also synths and so on!

don't know if there are some news about the Karma..

Bye!

[Tigerfolly]

I wonder if Korg will announce an updated version of the Karma at the next NAMM show since they have all but pulled them off the shelves at a lot of music stores.

Does anyone know anything about this?

FL
www.franklucas.net

I know a little about how Guitar Center and Sam Ash have been handling the Karma, as I worked at both of their south side stores:

The Karma does -not- sell well. The reason behind this is because the sales staff are simply not educated in what the Karma engine can do. As soon as I made department manager, the first thing I did was order more Karmas! At one time, I never had more than 2 Karmas in stock, but I had 10 Motif 6s, 7 Fantoms, and 8 Triton 61s (and a partridge in a pear tree). I bought in all the used Karmas I could find, because I knew their value, and knew that as soon as they disappeared (which all great gear like that eventually does), that's when the information would start trickling down.

The big problem is that people (salespeople especially) just view it as a "budget Triton", which technically it is, and isn't. That's what the Triton LE is, so it's very confusing to them. A Triton LE with MOSS expansion capabilities, no sampling capabilities (or expansion capability) and a red case? The Karma makes no sense unless you know what the Karma engine is, and what it's capable of.

Since that's the keyboard I wanted the most, and kept kicking myself for not buying when I had the money, I knew quite a bit about it, and sold every one the distributors would send me. I remember one particular customer who had a Triton Classic, and was upset that Korg had just released the Triton Studio. I talked to him for a while about the differences between the boards, and he asked me about the Karma. After a quick demo of the Karma engine, he bought one on the spot, and kept his Triton Classic as well.

The full scope of what Karma can do isn't exactly easy to grasp with just a quick once-over. The possibilities are incredible, but explaining this to sales personnel who have a hundred different keyboards to get familiar and comfortable with isn't exactly easy.. and Korg's focus is of course on the Triton Studio as it's flagship, and the Triton Classic as it's main competition against the Motif, so the Karma gets lost in the shuffle and misconstrued as a stepping stone between the Triton LE and the Triton Classic for people who don't need sampling.

Unfortunately, retail stores like Guitar Center and Sam Ash are less concerned about training than they are about the bottom line. Both were extremely happy that I was rabid about learning everything about every single keyboard we had available, but the veteran sales staff and manufacturer reps usually just teach quick sales tips and tricks, show you how to navigate around the board, and show you how to operate the most important features like sequencing and sometimes sampling. However while I in the industry, the product specialists that came in spotlighted on the Triton, the Motif, and the Fantom. Never met the Kurzweil rep, and I had a fully loaded K2600XS just collecting dust that we could -not- sell. We even loaned that board out to Disturbed for use on their second album "Believe". We all know what the Kurzweil is capable of by just watching Jordan Rudess play.. but try explaining why that $4,000 board is better than the $2,000 board that everyone knows about ;)

[Scrap]

According to Korg USA, the Karma hit the 20,000 unit mark a while ago, which Korg considers a measure of 'success'. Whether or not KARMA will be part of another Korg keyboard is anyone's guess - as I understand there was a lot of haggling between Stephen Kay and Korg Japan to retain key Triton features while keeping the price low, hence the 'cheapness' of the design - plastic sides and a Fatar keybed, a design decision that Korg carried over to the Triton Le. The CPUs of the Karma have more raw processing power than the Triton Classic, and I'm fairly sure that designing and fabricating a new shell can't be very cheap, either. A lone Karma sits at the local Guitar Center here, nicked up and internal presets all mangled up, not even updated to version 2.0 - a release that Korg heavily promoted. I'm surprised they haven't gotten rid of it yet.

It appears that Stephen Kay is now directing his energy towards the software world, with releases like KARMA-TRITON, which sends Karma GE data, created/stored on a Mac or PC, to a Triton via MIDI for output. Also in the works is a program called Karma Creator, a software plugin that will have all of the features (and probably more) of the KARMA engine found in the Karma keyboard, in a simple VST and DXi plugin format, usable with any sequencer, softsynth, hardware synth, so on.

In the distant future, I think the Karma will be elevated up along with many other pioneering keyboards, such as the DX-7, M1, Z1, and minimoog.

[Tigerfolly]

According to Korg USA, the Karma hit the 20,000 unit mark a while ago, which Korg considers a measure of 'success'. Whether or not KARMA will be part of another Korg keyboard is anyone's guess - as I understand there was a lot of haggling between Stephen Kay and Korg Japan to retain key Triton features while keeping the price low, hence the 'cheapness' of the design - plastic sides and a Fatar keybed, a design decision that Korg carried over to the Triton Le. The CPUs of the Karma have more raw processing power than the Triton Classic, and I'm fairly sure that designing and fabricating a new shell can't be very cheap, either. A lone Karma sits at the local Guitar Center here, nicked up and internal presets all mangled up, not even updated to version 2.0 - a release that Korg heavily promoted. I'm surprised they haven't gotten rid of it yet.

It appears that Stephen Kay is now directing his energy towards the software world, with releases like KARMA-TRITON, which sends Karma GE data, created/stored on a Mac or PC, to a Triton via MIDI for output. Also in the works is a program called Karma Creator, a software plugin that will have all of the features (and probably more) of the KARMA engine found in the Karma keyboard, in a simple VST and DXi plugin format, usable with any sequencer, softsynth, hardware synth, so on.

In the distant future, I think the Karma will be elevated up along with many other pioneering keyboards, such as the DX-7, M1, Z1, and minimoog.

Yeah, Korg never sent our stores the V2.0 update. I downloaded it off of Korg's website and updated our demo board, and gave copies of the update to anyone I sold Karmas to.

And I couldn't agree more with Scrap, about the Karma being considered a pioneering keyboard in time. I was so excited when Jordan got one and used it on Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence, and was happy when I found that many users on this forum, including an active moderator used and supported this wonderful instrument.

It's just a shame that great pieces of gear end up falling by the wayside or having their primary features hacked to bits and placed in several different products (Roland's VP-9000 Vari-Phrase comes to mind) because of poor marketing, poor training, or a lack of support.

The price of the Karma has held stable for a while now however, and I don't see anyone blowing the prices out on them, which is a good sign. Although I wouldn't mind being able to pick up a Karma for around $500 in a couple years!

[Martin]

but... is it near the date Korg will discontinue the Karma? I hope it isn't! :(
So i should buy it in a very short time?

[Scrap]

No one can know when Korg will discontinue it, but they still support repairs for the Trinity and sell upgrades for it via their website, which is, in workstation terms, a 'dated' but still solid keyboard. They recently archived the old version of the MS2000 and began distributing the B model of it.

My advice? Get one while you can. ;)

[Martin]

Ehehehe thank you for your advice!
If i can use part of my parents' money... i'll buy it soon :mrgreen: