A tune I copied / covered.

[Axe2Grind]

I thought I'd post this tune I copied, some will recognise it as the last song on Vitalij Kurpij High Definition Album called Slient Destiny. I've posted it a little while ago but on the end of a thread so doubt it got listened too. The song is a little piano/strings thing with a solo over the top, The original solo was on guitar and played by Greg Howe with Vitalij on keys. I played the whole tune by ear and with all keys so its not exact but near enough. The tune is a nice example of a melodic solo with fast bits, well it is when Greg plays it ha ha...

http://www.grostate.plus.com/_Sounds/SilentDestiny_Justin.mp3

[Vlakey]

Nice! :D
is that JD800?

[Axe2Grind]

Nice! :D
is that JD800?

Hey Vlakey, no unfortunately it was'nt the JD800 (I wish), I used my normal lead patch I made with the Emagic ES1 virtual synth and then put it through Amplitube plugin, except I went a little overboard with the reverb. :)

[Vlakey]

hehe ;)
I like it...

[Lyngs]

Awesome playing. :)
And a cool leadsound - very organic and responsive. Did you play the piano aswell? I think the pianosound is really good.

[Axe2Grind]

Awesome playing. :)
And a cool leadsound - very organic and responsive. Did you play the piano aswell? I think the pianosound is really good.

Hi Lyngs,

Thanks man, I did play the piano/strings as well (by ear), although the piano sound was a factory sample from the Emagic EX24, I thought it sounded a bit weak but worked o.k once recorded.

P.S How did your audition go ? I hope it went well... :D

[Lyngs]

Awesome playing. :)
And a cool leadsound - very organic and responsive. Did you play the piano aswell? I think the pianosound is really good.

Hi Lyngs,

Thanks man, I did play the piano/strings as well (by ear), although the piano sound was a factory sample from the Emagic EX24, I thought it sounded a bit weak but worked o.k once recorded.

P.S How did your audition go ? I hope it went well... :D

The audition went fine. I recieved a letter thursday, which told me that I got in! :)

I'm really looking forward to it!

[MoonDark]

Man thats very nice! :)
Keep the good work!

[Axe2Grind]

[The audition went fine. I recieved a letter thursday, which told me that I got in! :)

I'm really looking forward to it![/quote]

Lyngs, Well done, That's great news!...

Moondark, Thanks very much and for listening to it.... :D

[SpaceDyeMan]

Great lead sound! :shock:
That vibrato is amazing!
Can you sample it for me!?
Or send the patch!?
It would be great to have it on my Trinity :D
Some work on it, and it'll be perfect!

[Axe2Grind]

Great lead sound! :shock:
That vibrato is amazing!
Can you sample it for me!?
Or send the patch!?
It would be great to have it on my Trinity :D
Some work on it, and it'll be perfect!

Hey SpaceDyeMan,

If you have Emagic Logic then I can email you the ES1 patch or Screen shots of the parameters for it. But its the distortion which makes the sound really, I put my lead patch through Amplitube. I tell you the easiest way to make a lead sound like my one is to use a monophonic analog lead patch (using a SAW waveform) which has minimal or no resonance (otherwise it sounds too synthy) with the ADSR set as follows : Attack set to 0; Decay set to Maximum setting; Sustain set to Maximum setting; Release set to 0. Add some nice Warm Distortion or Overdrive and that is a good starting block for an expressive lead. :D

[SpaceDyeMan]

Thanks for the feedback ;)
I don't have this soft, I would like to do something like this lead on my Trinity, I already done some good patches, the problem is that vibrato!
The thing on your lead is the vibrato!
Very guitar-ish!
That's what I'm looking for!

[Axe2Grind]

SpaceDyeMan,

The Vibrato on my lead patch is not programmed !, I used my left hand and Pitch stick for that, its the only way in my book to get natural vibrato.
There's no way I can get modulation triggered vibrato on my lead patch anyways as I have programmed my Pitch stick modulation to do a 12 octave bend when you push up, so that I can mimick whammy/ribbon effects.

My rule is, never use modulation or a programmed effect for vibrato, as it should be done by using your left hand on whatever bending device you use. All the pro's do it this way.

Justin.

[Spacehog]

as I have programmed my Pitch stick modulation to do a 12 octave bend when you push up

12 octaves? DUDE!!! ;-) I assume you mean 12 semitones (1 octave) :)

Martin

[Lyngs]

:lol:

[Axe2Grind]

as I have programmed my Pitch stick modulation to do a 12 octave bend when you push up

12 octaves? DUDE!!! ;-) I assume you mean 12 semitones (1 octave) :)

Martin

WHAT WAS I THINKING, I must have been half asleep, yep 12 semitones, 1 Octave. Thanks for that Martin, and Lyngs STOP LAUGHING !!!...

Hehehe :D

[Lyngs]

Ahh... now you made me start again... :lol:

[SpaceDyeMan]

I use the bend also, but I don't have that technique!
I always use +-2semi, I'll try the 12semi thing!
:)
thanks!

[Cary]

My rule is, never use modulation or a programmed effect for vibrato, as it should be done by using your left hand on whatever bending device you use. All the pro's do it this way.

Justin.
A student of the Wizard indeed!

I use +2/-12 most of the time.
I used to use mod for vibrato(for many, many years) until I watched Keyboard Wizardry. Now I wouldn't recommend any other way but PB.

[Axe2Grind]

I mostly use the +2 (UP) -2 (Down) approach but sometimes if I am doing say a bluesy solo then I'll use +3 / -2 as the extra semi tone gives you that over bent string sound which blues guitar players get and sounds real cool and expressive, You do need a little more control over your bending device though as you would not want to always have that over bent sound. I think having a -12 on the down bending range is a bit limiting personal for me as I like to bend into notes either from above or below the actual note I'm bending, (also known by guitarists as ghost bending).

I've never used the modulation for vibrato on lead sounds, only when doing funk comping, modulation with a cutting synth stab is great, if you've heard early prince stuff you'll know what I mean. I learnt very early on that vibrato has to come from your hands and not a pre programmed effect. My older guitarist brother told me that when I was just starting keyboards, except my first keyboard did not have a bending device on it (It was a Casio home organ) and my brother told me to quiver my fingers on the keys to get vibrato (Typical Guitarist :lol: )I later learnt my bending technique by going down my local music shop and spending hours on a brand new Roland Jupiter 6 (shows how long ago it was !) and getting chucked out of the shop on a few occassions. How I dreamt of that JP6.....but it really helped my soloing. I learnt how to use a wheel and stick before I even owned a synth with a bending device on it. :lol:

[Medusa]

Great tune man, Vitalij is very cool sometimes (but not always), i love the Artension stuff, but that's also partly because of John West.

Anyway is there anyway i could get a midi of the track, I really love the piano backing. If so please send to midi@allthatrocks.co.uk , If not i understand.

[SpaceDyeMan]

But one thing I didn't understood:
You said you use 12 semi to do the vibrato thing... but what about the 2 semi that you loose!?
Do you use the ribbon to the 2 semi? or 12 semi!?
Something like this?

[Axe2Grind]

Hey Medusa, Thanks man, I know what you mean about Vitalij's music, I love his technique and piano, not sure about his lead and organ work though. I keep meaning to check out Artension. Unfortunately I did not make a MIDI file of this song, only audio and I have not got the logic song file which I recorded it in anymore. I have however re-recorded just the piano part and made a midi file for you, its a bit rough and play the midi through a piano layered with strings patch and that should basically be the backing. Also I learnt this song by ear so its not exact to the original.

SpaceDyeMan,

I think you did misunderstand me, sorry. I do my vibrato in the usual way, having a +2 / -2 bend range on my Pitch stick and moving my left hand to and fro to get the vibrato, sometimes I do it slow and wide, short and fast etc, depending on what I'm playing. Just listen to different guitarists and even Sax players and mimick their vibrato, also go buy Jordan's instruction video as he explains vibrato very well with exercises too. P.S The 12 semit tone thing I was explaining is my modulation part of my roland pitch stick, when I push up on the stick for modulation, I programmed my lead to do an octave bend so as to mimmick a whammy bar or ribbon, I have'nt acually got a ribbon on my keyboard. :D

[Medusa]

Thanks so much. That is so cool of you. I really appreciate your time and effort in doing that for me. :D

You really should check out artension, definatley one of my favourite prog metal bands.

[Axe2Grind]

You're welcome, it did'nt take too long to do, hope you received it o.k. and that it worked !, have fun with it.... I've checked out some of Artensions latest MP3 clips on their web and its cool stuff, sounds similar to some Rising Force/Malmsteen stuff which I love, so will probably get their latest studio release.

[Medusa]

Works like a dream, thanks again. As for the Artension stuff i must say i prefer the first 3 albums, I'd say try either "Into the Eye of The Storm" or "Forces Of Nature" first.

I'd also recommend checking out John West first two CD's which are in a very similar vein.

[Quili]

Nice one! Pretty expressive playing! :)

I love the Amplitube plugin as well, I use it with the Pro-53 soft synth for almost all leads nowadays, even though there are aspects of using a soft synth that I don´t like. For example I kind of miss being able to do trills by keeping one note pressed and trilling an adjacent key... At least I have never been able to set a soft synth up to manage that. I guess that goes for any midi controlled monophonic sound though, since the information of the pressed key disappears when the next one is pressed...

Anyone have a smart solution for this?

[Axe2Grind]

Medusa,

Cool, Glad it works. Thanks for the Artension tips, I'll be sure to check those albums out and John West's stuff. I'm sure I have an album with him on it somewhere, I think it might be my ASIA album I have called AQUA, I'm sure he does the Vox and Bass on that. (Oops that was John Wetton)

Quili,

Thanks dude, I think Amplitube is great, adds real life into synth lead sounds of any kind. I bet the Pro53 sounds real cool with amplitube, something I've been meanng to try out. With regard to your trill problem with the Pro53. Obviously your lead just has the 1 voice assign to it to make it monophonic but have you tried turning off the vel. button and played with the 'release' button, usually a lot of synths have a legato mode which lets you trill away but the Pro53 does'nt seem to have it so I think the release button has something to do with your problem. I'm sure I played a demo version of it and was able to trill.

[Quili]

You were completely right! I just had to add a few voices and set it for unison! I should have thought of that... :)

[Axe2Grind]

Cool, get trilling dude.....I'm gonna download the demo again and try it out with Amplitube. Thanks Quili...

[SpaceDyeMan]

Ok Axe ;)
I understand the 12 semi now!
I tried to make a lead on my Trinity, I put two Saw oscillators, one on the right tune and other a little detuned, put a Dist/Wah effect but with Wah off, because this dist algorith is better! Anyway I think your lead has some other effects!?
I hear a long reverb and a cross between Wah/Flanger Chorus! Am I right?
And the EQ is very low also!
The lead I made is almost identical, with the exception of this Wah effect!
I'll work on it later :D
I'll post something when it's done!
Thanks again :wink:

And don't be afraid, I'll not copy your lead! I'm just tryin' to program a lot of different lead, and maybe do something of my own ( I used to have a good lead sound on my Rs-9, but it were really EASIER, the Trinity has a lot of parameters to set, I've got my Trinity a little time ago, so I'm still learning )

[Axe2Grind]

Hey SpaceDyeMan,

Your Trinity lead sounds cool, you're exactly right, my sound has a chorus effect on it, some reverb and of course Ampltube distortion/overdrive and it has low EQ, spot on!. I've noticed the wah effect on my sound, especially when I bend a note, but there is no Wah so just might be the mixture of all the effects which causes that.

Look forward to hearing a clip of your sound, and don't worry I am not protective of my sounds, I'm flattered that you like it and if I can ever help somebody achieve a particular sound, I'd be more than happy to send patches, info etc.

Justin.

[Bastardo Demono]

great man, you do fine justice to it. its stuff like this that baffles me when people say guys like vitalij dont play with emotion.

oh and if you like John West, dont forget the Last 3 Royal Hunt albums! lots of great melodic playing there too.

[Axe2Grind]

Hey BD,

Thanks man, I really want to check out Vitalij's new album, I've heard good things about it, there's a whole bunch of stuff I want to get at the moment, thanks to tips from guys here. I did'nt know John West was in Royal Hunt :shock: . Man, the list of CD's to get keeps growing..

Keep rocking dude...

[OrpheusTheBard]

Wow great tone and expressivity! Beautiful solo. :) You got me interested in that Ampltube thing now. Is there a demo of it that i can try? That lead sound is one of the best i've heard IMO.

Orpheus

[Axe2Grind]

Wow great tone and expressivity! Beautiful solo. :) You got me interested in that Ampltube thing now. Is there a demo of it that i can try? That lead sound is one of the best i've heard IMO.

Orpheus

Yep Orpheus, just go to www.amplitube.com and download the demo, its fully working except you get random white noise blips every now and then as a protection. It sounds wonderful with an analog lead patch.

Thanks for your comments and listening to my other stuff, well apprecicated. :D

[OrpheusTheBard]

Just tried it out. Great piece of software, i loved it, despite being a demo :D Some really realistic guitar effects there! Can you mail me the parameters of your lead?? Everything I tried so far sounded more like a distorted guitar rather than a lead like yours. And if you could send me a small sample (mp3, like 2 seconds) of your lead before going through Amplitube so I can hear what to aproach, I'd be very grateful. :) Thanks.

Orpheus

[Axe2Grind]

Yep no problem, I'll do that after I get home from work today....

[OrpheusTheBard]

Sankyuu! :wink:

Orpheus

[Axe2Grind]

Just send the email to you, hope it helps.

Justin.