Recorded a New Song Studio Last Night

[hephiroth]

Last night we recorded our song, "New Day" in the studio!

Here's the link: Elysium - New Day (http://portfolio.iu.edu/ayang/Elysium_-_New_Day.mp3)

It's also on our website, www.elysiumonline.com (http://www.elysiumonline.com)

See what you think!!!

-Jeff-

[Tigerfolly]

Last night we recorded our song, "New Day" in the studio!

Here's the link: Elysium - New Day (http://portfolio.iu.edu/ayang/Elysium_-_New_Day.mp3)

It's also on our website, www.elysiumonline.com (http://www.elysiumonline.com)

See what you think!!!

-Jeff-

Last night we recorded our song, "New Day" in the studio!

Here's the link: Elysium - New Day (http://portfolio.iu.edu/ayang/Elysium_-_New_Day.mp3)

It's also on our website, www.elysiumonline.com (http://www.elysiumonline.com)

See what you think!!!

-Jeff-

p.s., i also put this in the show off forum, but i thought i'd put it here until that gets more established. sorry if that's a problem :?

First impression: A really good song played by a really good band. It sounds like it was knocked off live or very quickly.

Anal nitpicky producer's impressions:

Really good drum sound, good drum track. So many people don't understand that good drumming forgives a LOT of sins with music, so a great drum track is the key ingredient in recording to me, and although I can't really enjoy the drum sound as much as I'd like to (since it's a low bitrate mp3), I like what I can hear. I'm interested to know if this was done yourselves, or at a recording studio, and what you used for it.

The bass has good tone, but it's -way- too loud in the mix for such a dead fingerstyle tone. If the bass needs to be that loud in the mix, liven it up.. the tone that it has is -perfect- for being back in the mix where it should be, and still having presence and cut.

The main rhythm guitar is real fuzzy for my taste. That's the type of sound that you get when you record with too much gain. Guitars are one of the hardest things to get sounding right, and if I was called in to remix this song, the first thing to go would be the distorted electrics.. you want to be able to hear the distortion, but not that fizzy top end of the distortion. If you're not miking a cab and running direct, rolling off some of the high end above 4k helps.. but the punch and throat of the guitar is mired in fuzz. It sounds good in the prechorus section (where the guitar plays sustained chords while the piano plays underneath.. "So why am I just the only one left .."). In the choruses, to bring things up a notch, I'd throw another guitar panned in the opposite speaker of the main guitar with a dry distorted tone, playing a simplified version of the rhythm. Mixed in so it's just above being inaudible, that will bring the chorus up in intensity. Also, I would change the way the guitars fade into that little interlude/bridge section.. because they're so fuzzy, when that fuzz dies away, they're pretty much ambient noise.

The keyboards are mixed -way- too low. Starting with the piano tones, I'd turn them up louder when they're under the vocals, but I'd duck them out of the way of the lead vocal with a little EQ and compression. The string part that's in there is very Kevin Moore-ish.. kickass :) Be careful not to wash the piano and strings in too much reverb, because that washes away a lot of the detail.. of course, that comes in handy sometimes too.

The vocals sound good. They have a little more effect than I like on them.. but I like really dry, tight sounds.. so that's a matter of taste. They sound good though.. no pops, hisses, and they don't sound too boxy.

Use your stereo field. You've got 180 degrees of field, and the only thing that sound stereo is the overhead mikes, the toms, and the keyboards. Get experimental with traditional ideas.. instead of a stereo piano patch, use the same patch in mono, pan it 20% to a side, and throw a short room or plate reverb on it in the other speaker. Use two guitars, in stereo (panned about 15-30% to each side) in the choruses.

This song suffers from the same thing 95% of the songs I hear from original bands: Lack of dimension due to lack of studio vision. Listening to this, this is exactly what I would expect to hear you guys if I saw you guys live. Now granted, a lot of people don't want an album where there's a bunch of overdubs that you couldn't hope to pull off live without a huge group of extra musicians onstage to help.. but it's not about layers as much as it's about tones.

I always get on the guys I work with about writing these songs that have the same dynamic level, feel, tones, or impact all the way through. There's got to be something more than separates the sections, that tells the listener to listen for new stuff. In the case of this song, things like having the one guitar tone, in the center (or very close to it), all the way through the song just -kill- the depth that could be there. With the bass part being that loud and dry, the song can only breathe and have dynamics when the bass player does.

Even little subtle things help. Just a little change in EQ or compression could do it in most parts. If this is just a demo, it's a great demo. If you're building a final track out of this, you've already got a great foundation to a really good recording. If this song had been brought in to me to produce, engineer, mix or master, I definitely would enjoy working on it.. and that's a good barometer of how your song is: If a producer/engineer doesn't grit his teeth and make strangling gestures after the 20th spin of the track, it's a good one ;)

[hephiroth]

Wow, thank you! Those are some very helpful comments. One funny thing: The keys are SO low that during the pre-chorus part, I'm actually playing an ORGAN sound (which was fucking badass and I'm pissed you can't hear it) but it's so low it sounds like nothing. Goddammit!

And yeah, the bass is outrageously loud for some reason. Our bassist was going to use his SWR head, but the guy who's studio we recorded at had this Ampex (ampeX, not ampeG) tube amp from like the 1950's or something that was incredibly cool. So yeah the tone is awesome, but jesus it's loud. The problem was we did this so he could demonstrate to a recording class he teaches at IU how to record a band. So, we got this for free, but we didn't have all the time we'd like to listen back and re do things, like the mix, etc. After leaving and listening in the car one time, I could have gone back in there and told him 10 things to change about the mix, but beggars can't be choosers. Like I said in the General forum to someone else, this guy is really good and over the summer we're going to record with him for real and spend a LOT of time on everything.

As for the guitars, yeah, I also think they could be sounding better. This was done w/ a Mesa/Boogie Dual Rectifier and a Mesa/Boggie 4x12, with the cab miked. I know what you're talking about with that noise, and the only thing I can think of is that we rushed things. I mean...the bass, drums, piano were all I think done on one take. We did some overdubs, especially w/ that middle interlude part, but yeah this was basically a live thing.

The vocals were recorded with some outrageous compression vocal mic thing and it had a wind guard thing on, etc. I think he put a short delay on the vocals so that could be what you don't like about the vocal sound.

Oh, and thanks for the KM comment about my string part! That's actually 3 string patches layered, and I did have some fun w/ panning them left and right, so it gives it a different sound.

I know what you mean about doing more w/ stereo, and we would, given the time. I know our guitarist's favorite guitar tone is off of Awake, with the Mark IIC+ in one channel and the Dual Rectifier in the other...since he has both those amps, he really wants to try that. He also has a Tri-Axis, so he can get all sorts of tones, and, given the time, would love to do a lot of stereo stuff w/ guitars, etc. We were just kind of rushed for this...and it was free, so what the hell, lol.

Anyway, yeah--thanks!

-Jeff-

[David]

*Listening to it now...*

Sounds very good! :wink:


/David

[Tigerfolly]

Wow, thank you! Those are some very helpful comments. One funny thing: The keys are SO low that during the pre-chorus part, I'm actually playing an ORGAN sound (which was fucking badass and I'm pissed you can't hear it) but it's so low it sounds like nothing. Goddammit!

Actually, I did hear it. I was listening to it, and I heard this part in there.. but it was so faint, I thought maybe that I had just picked up on something and that I would suggest it.. then when I heard that little something every single time through, I thought it might be a part. I thought it would be silly to mention that I had this idea for a great organ part, that you actually already played and had mixed so low that it was subliminal ;)

And yeah, the bass is outrageously loud for some reason. Our bassist was going to use his SWR head, but the guy who's studio we recorded at had this Ampex (ampeX, not ampeG) tube amp from like the 1950's or something that was incredibly cool. So yeah the tone is awesome, but jesus it's loud.

Yeah, Ampex's major claim to fame was tape machines. You can actually still buy Ampex tape today for reel-to-reel recorders. It's not like, top of the line.. but it was built well and if taken care of would totally provide a really good vintage tube tone.

The problem was we did this so he could demonstrate to a recording class he teaches at IU how to record a band. So, we got this for free, but we didn't have all the time we'd like to listen back and re do things, like the mix, etc. After leaving and listening in the car one time, I could have gone back in there and told him 10 things to change about the mix, but beggars can't be choosers. Like I said in the General forum to someone else, this guy is really good and over the summer we're going to record with him for real and spend a LOT of time on everything.

Shit dude, I'm in the wrong business. If that guy can teach a class on how to record a band, and he came up with that production for you, I could be raking it in!

As for the guitars, yeah, I also think they could be sounding better. This was done w/ a Mesa/Boogie Dual Rectifier and a Mesa/Boggie 4x12, with the cab miked. I know what you're talking about with that noise, and the only thing I can think of is that we rushed things. I mean...the bass, drums, piano were all I think done on one take. We did some overdubs, especially w/ that middle interlude part, but yeah this was basically a live thing.

The big problem with guitars is they really need to be -really- loud to get that kickass guitar tone. You're basically looking for power amp distortion instead of preamp distortion.. it's like cake versus icing.. you definitely want more cake than icing :) The preamp distortion is just the icing. Unfortunately, most of the time that's all you end up hearing on a recording. A friend of mine was in this band from Downers Grove called "Rust", and he had -THE- most incredible guitar tone. They were working with a fairly big name studio in the city, and I was anxious to hear the result.. and I have never, ever been so disappointed in my life. Sounds like someone just threw an SM57 on one of the drivers and said "That'll do". Totally ruined everything.

The vocals were recorded with some outrageous compression vocal mic thing and it had a wind guard thing on, etc. I think he put a short delay on the vocals so that could be what you don't like about the vocal sound.

Probably just a tube mic with a pop-stopper on it. I couldn't tell if it was a delay or a reverb on the vocal.. but like I said, I like a -really- dry, in your face sound with things, especially vocals. I also tend to mix vocals a little too loud.. but that's mainly because they sound so good dry!

Oh, and thanks for the KM comment about my string part! That's actually 3 string patches layered, and I did have some fun w/ panning them left and right, so it gives it a different sound.

No problem, I dug it. It was just mixed too low. What did he record all of this on? Digital? Tape? If it's digital, have him export the tracks as .wav files, and you can do your own home producing and mixing with a digital multitrack program.

I know what you mean about doing more w/ stereo, and we would, given the time. I know our guitarist's favorite guitar tone is off of Awake, with the Mark IIC+ in one channel and the Dual Rectifier in the other...since he has both those amps, he really wants to try that. He also has a Tri-Axis, so he can get all sorts of tones, and, given the time, would love to do a lot of stereo stuff w/ guitars, etc. We were just kind of rushed for this...and it was free, so what the hell, lol.

Totally. Like I said, it's a great demo. I can't wait to hear the final version. There's so much potential there that I hope this guy picks up on when he records ya later ;)

[hephiroth]

well, this guy can DEFINITELY record well. He's from Hollywood, he's out here teaching for a few years while his wife gets her PhD. but...he was the Assistant Engineer on Pink Floyd's "The Wall," he did 3 live albums for The Doors, he got Big Bad Voodoo Daddy their start, he worked with Dishwalla, did a number of movie soundtracks, just to name a few. He's the real deal, and we're pretty lucky to be here while he's here teaching.

He runs his studio out of his house, and it's a mix of vintage analog stuff and digital stuff. This was not done w/ pro-tools or anything--he doesn't even have a computer out there. He mixes on the fly, uses all hardware effects, etc. He's a really interesting guy. His name is Russ Castillo. I'm sure you could find some stuff on him. That's why I know that, given proper time in the studio, we could have some KICK ass results with this guy.

And, actually, the guitar was turned extremely loud, but maybe it needed to be louder. Cuz I don't think the distorition is what it could be. Oh well. At least it was free :D

Thanks again for the comments (and read this thread in General Forum cuz i replied about your band playing in bloomington)

-Jeff-