newb question about multiple keyboards

[rtype]

I've seen a lot of setups here pictured and seen a lot of your lists of equipment that you own and many of you own multiple keyboards.

There was a time, perhaps, when different keyboards produced very different sounds and there wasn't a way to easily transfer those sounds from one board to the other. Today, many of you have high end workstations than can easily mimic other sounds. They can also split the keyboard to produce two (or more) voices at once and they have switches (and sometimes pedals) to switch quickly between voices. So...

Why do you still have setups (and racks) with multiple keyboards? How are you using these? I know some amount of it is nostalgia and just not wanting to get rid of an instrument you've grown attached to, but I know I'm also missing something big here. I know this is a newbie question, but if any of you are willing to discuss...

[Vlakey]

I think a big part of that is the "my equipment is bigger than yours" ego trip... :lol:
If you're just looking for an easy gig playing pop hits at a local bar while using one piano, one string, and one hammond patch, you really won't see the difference between brands... but there are differences, if you look into it a bit deeper.

But then again... I wouldn't know what I'm talking about... I have only one keyboard... :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Liquid Shadow]

And some guys just think it looks cool. :lol:

I only have one keyboard as well, but I could see myself owning several (or racks more likely). I wouldn't use multiple keyboards...I'd do more of what Jordan does, where you have one as your controller and others just generating sounds.
Though, I would eventually like to get one of those awesome keytars so I could strap it on and walk out to center stage for some guitar vs. synth dueling. 8)

[keys88]

... I know some amount of it is nostalgia

Well. You may be absolutly right. But, to be honest, my live gear at the moment is only one synth (YEAH,the monster :evil: ). And I almost have a lot of, as you say, nostalgic gear. It was coming in through the last 15 years and I was never forced to sell them. So I still have them all.
A bunch of them in the rehearsal room so you don't have carry on instrument from one place to the other, a few momentarily (pronounced correct??? F*** school english) retired and the old analog ones will maybe never see a stage again.
So, in my case, it's a collection done within the past years. And there always will be a reason to put another instrument to the job. Some kind of sound you can't emulate (even with the kurz).
But for live concerts, almost one is mostly enough (the kurz is heavy!!! Why carry more :lol: I don't have a roady!!!)
If I really need all this gear? I don't know. If I really love this gear? OH YEAH!!! It's part of my music history.

[rtype]

keys88

Do you have the K2600? If so, what sounds can you not make it produce? :)

[keys88]

I think the main problem is my (un)ability to program sounds with the K2600 :oops:
And I'm not really a friend of sampling
So sometimes I almost have to use the old one.

[ImaX]

In my case it's just that I don't want to sell my old boards (have 3 boards and two racks now), because after some years the money you'd get for it is not as worthy as to use the instrument still.

...And I can play the keys after coming home from a gig without setting everything up again, because I just have 1 board (keys88: the 'monster 2500') and 1 rack with me while the rest is set up in my room.

But I think that there are some specific sounds still today. I'm pretty sure that after playing all brands for some time you can recognize for example the piano sounds of different brands. And some sounds are easy to make on one instrument (or the instrument has the right preset) and you're too lazy to do everything again on a different instrument.

[rtype]

Imax

I get that different keyboards have even a different piano sound, but if you own a newer keyboard that has programmable voices, can't you get the voices from an older keyboard into the new keyboard?

[PsawniK]

I like having multiple keyboards on stage because you don't have to program your entire set as a sequence of patch changes; you can just go to another 'board. Also, it seem that crowds like the Rick Wakeman-style playing on two boards.

[Spacehog]

I don't know that I could physically play some of the stuff I do on one 'board... I'm used to using at least 2 now... it would require serious amounts of programming to set up the splits and stuff to give me the setups I need, and at about $500 a board, life's too short to do that... there's the polyphony issue too, I play a lot of really big sounds that use multiple layers, and I'd run out of notes quick!

I'm also just used to having things on 2 different levels... I find it easier to play a lead on a board that's physically higher up than I would have it set up for a piano sound, say. And even with today's high spec keyboards, each one still has its distinctive sounds. A Korg always sounds different to a Roland, which always sounds different to an Emu, which always sounds different to a Yamaha, etc. The architecture is different on each synth, so even if you could get the exact same raw samples in, you may not be able to get the exact same sounds out, and TBQH people tend to *like* the different sounds the different boards make.

Martin

[hephiroth]

personally, i just use a triton 88 and do splits and so on...although i've got my eye on that k2661...i'd like it so i could have a really nice keyboard to have at home (my triton usually stays at band practice) and then for shows i could use it like a rack module...or maybe just play w/ 2 boards...who knows!

-jeff-

[Vlakey]

Though, I would eventually like to get one of those awesome keytars so I could strap it on and walk out to center stage for some guitar vs. synth dueling. 8)
:shock: Me too! Back-to-back shit... :lol:
But I just can't find one that doesn't look crappy....
maybe I should build one customized for myself... ;)

[Axe2Grind]

I'm personally a one keyboard to do all kinda guy, but I can see why some keyboardists have multi keyboards, IMO a Kurzweil K25/6 have the best piano's and the best for acoustic sounds, The Triton with Moss board for leads and Pads, Maybe a Nord Electro for Electric Piano,Clav & organ and an Alesis andromeda A6 for analog. So that would make a multi keyboard rig but each keyboard doing what it does best. which IMO explains the multi keyboard approach. I know a lot of keyboards can do all the above under one roof but some keyboardists prefer the sound of a certain type of sound on a certain keyboard and cannot live without them so brings them on the road.

[ImaX]

I get that different keyboards have even a different piano sound, but if you own a newer keyboard that has programmable voices, can't you get the voices from an older keyboard into the new keyboard?

No, because each board has an synthesizer structure and different sound engines (...means: the part that produces the basic sound is different, and the part that changes and modulates this sound is also different for each board).

To get the basic sound into the new board you could sample it, which might be a lot of work (never tried), but then theres still the synth architecture behind the basic sound. And of course the effect section (no problem with hall, but in distortion or flanger effect there might be some differences).

As I said I've never tried it, but even if it's possible I'm sure it would be a lot of work.

[Liquid Shadow]

:shock: Me too! Back-to-back shit... :lol:

Or so you could pull a Malmsteen and spin it around your back every other measure. :lol:

[SirMaximus]

I use many keyboards because they sound different.I need the best sounds,and I need different keyboards to get those sounds.I cannot play piano on an analogue synth,and I cannot play mellotron on an organ.

[Omega Monkey]

In the studio, I think it would be silly to limit yourself to just one board, unless thats all you had available. For recording, youre better off going with the real thing (ie real Rhodes or Moog) whenever possible. Why do you think Snow has such AWESOME sound, and Feeding the Wheel sounds well, eh. I mean, FTW has some cool sounds too, but they just dont sound "authentic". I really wish Jordan would relegate the K2600 to live settings and use "real" shit for recording. Obviously this would mean his sound would be different live, but he could probably minimize it pretty well. I mean, he doesnt take a DW8000 on tour, but somehow he still plays PMU every night. I like Jordans playing, but his overreliance on the Kurzweil doesnt do any favors for his tone.

And yeah, sampling your own sounds is a BITCH. I mean, sfx and drum/percussion stuff arent that bad, but actual sounds that you'll play are hard because you have to be consistent about recording each note. And when you sample, you give up all the real time control and expression that's possible on the original board. Like if I sampled my D-50, I could still get a similar sound, but I oculdnt use the PG-1000 to wrangle crazy sounds out of it or manipulate the sound in real time. I actually have a commercial sample of one of the original d-50 presets, and it sounds very close when a/b'ed. But it loses some punch and glassiness that are so integral to the D-50 sound.

Plus, old analog shit just sounds SO awesome! I have a few different keyboards right now (including a real Rhodes), and my favorite one to play and hear by far is the oldest and cheapest one, my Roland JX-3P w/PG-200 programmer. And that's not even full analog (it's got DCOs) and it sounds unbelievable. The only thing that sucks about is no mono mode and no glide. But otherwise I get nice lush fat sounds out of it. I paid $125 for it.

Also, it is just plain sexier to have a few different old school boards up there on stage! Just look at old photos of guys like Moraz or Corea or Wakeman or Emerson with their mountains of synths, organs, piano/Rhodes, and Mellotrons. Sorry, but as much as some of you guys might think so, a K2600 will never be as sexy or as cool as an 88 Suitcase or a CS-80 or a B-3.

[Enigma™]

That's funny, because for someone who's so sure JR only used his 2600 on Feeding the wheel, I'm positive he used real pianos, real hammonds, moogs, etc... I mean, I could probably ask him for you to find out exactly what was going on... But before you put your foot in your mouth again, remember that on FTW, MOST of the sounds weren't Kurzweil. They WERE actual analogue/authentic B3's, etc..
Just thought I'd like to toss that in there

[Phred]

Long time lurker first time poster.

I have been playing keys for a while in a funk/rock/jammy-ish band. My current live rig is two keyboards. I have just lowered it from three.

My organ sounds come from a Roland VK-7 and my other sounds from a Kurz me-1 rack and an A33 controller. I couldn't imagine playing with less then two keyboards live for 2 main reasons.

The first is similar to what axe2grind said. The sounds and expressiveness your can get from different keyboards is great. For a guy doing my type of music, a Hammond simulator is a must have.

More importantly though and I am surprised no-one said this yet; is the feel. Most people that I know that have two or more boards have them for very different reasons. A typical setup is a stiff weighted action for piano etc with a synthy thing up top.

I used to use a 61 note synth action Trinity in my rig, and bought the A33 because I couldn't play the piano very convincingly with that soft action.

[WoofWoofX]

Hi there,
tried to use one KB but didn't work...since Trinity cuts the voices when you chnge from a prog to an other... so had to get a second one.
My Live rig used to be a Trinity plus with PBS-TRI option that I load some loops on it and use it as a smple playback (like Pinkfloyd's Money...Genesis' MAMA...Time...etc)
and Yamaha AN1X as a synth to get some arpegios and nice Analoguish like sounds can't get them from Trinity.
Now with K2661 everything has changed but I will still keep both Trinity and KurZy... unfortunately I am not going on stage these days focusing a studio work... hope I can demo them live with full power speakers and play some loud leads and complex pads.

//WoofWoofX

[John]

If I could afford one, I'd probably get the Kurz 2661 to sit above my Kurz 2500XS. Maybe I'll look for one on ebay in a few years from now. That way I'd have a little redundancy (if one board had probelems I'd still have the other), I'd have two different feels (fully weighted & organ like), and I'd have the new 26xx architecture. I don't think I'd ever want more than two boards in my setup. Maybe a couple rack mounts.

[Jerry]

Different synth technologies have unique timbral qualities, as do different electro-mechanical keys (rhodes, wurly, clav, b3).

Additionally even within a given synth domain (say rom based synths) different manufacturers do different things well. The synth that can be all things to all people simply hasn't been invented. Some synths do better than others at approaching this ideal.

To some degree it's a question of how picky you want to be. There could be several reasons why certain cd's sound fuller or richer than others. Some of its can be the inclusion of multiple keyboard types. Some of it may be due to the production values in the signal chain: miking, preamps, effects, tape saturation, mixdown, etc.

It's kinda like the voice overs for an animated movie. Sure you could get Robin Williams to do all the parts and he's mind-blowingly good, but you might sense a certain sameness between characters.

Best,

Jerry