Wha is going on with the synth market?

[telemaco5]

Hi, I was just wondering, it seems that in the past few years the bigger companies, Korg, Yamaha and Roland are re-introducing the same product in less than a year or two. I remember that there were products that had a larger life in store shelves, like the XD-5 (seems that will never retire) or the Triton Classic (since 1999). But For example, the Fantom was introduced in 2001 and it's out of the stores, in 2003 the fantom-S was introduced to the market as an improved version, it may seem ok since the fantom lacked an 88 verision and a sampler, but then a few months later we have the Fantom X series??? why??? what was wrong with the Fantom S???
The the tritons, there are like 4 (5 if you count the Karma) triton models now, classic, Le, Studio and now the new EXTREME???? I understand the purpose of the Le (cheaper) and the purspose of the studio (an improved version of the classic) but what the hell is Triton Extreme going to do?? I bet is the same thing in another package. And I´m still very angry with Yamaha because of the MOTIF ES, less than 2 years and there ir already an upgrade version, at least the triton had like 4 years. I don´t live in the US so I can´t get the "loyalty or leality program" to swtich your motif to motif ES. It seems the only serious company that isn´t crazy for making a new model every month is Kurzweil. How old is the K2600 model? more than 4 or maybe 5 years now??
What do you fellows think about this?

[Spacehog]

Gotta agree with you, although to be fair I probably wouldn't get any of the 'boards you mentioned except the Karma. But hey, at least your companies are keeping selling keyboards! As an E-MU user, I've bought into a technology that's been completely discontinued in favour of soundcards and computer-based sampling systems... and very nice as it does appear, it just doesn't interest me as much as hardware does. I already *have* a software sampler that does all I need a sampler to do (VSampler that's included with Sonar 3 Producer)

Strange times, all in all... ho hum

Martin

[hephiroth]

i'm still going strong with the triton classic...although i *would* like the sampling capabilities of the triton studio, or perhaps the increased portability of the triton le...i really don't see that much reason to switch boards...i am really never limited by my triton proX :D

-JefF-

[Thiago]

I couldn't agree more!
There is no news in therms of synthesis, the engines are the same with the tritons, that's why I won't buy this new models...., I don't use arpegiators, sequencers or internal recordings, I'm just into the sounds these machines can generate.
I think it's a waste of money...another thing is the Le, it's not the same thing comparing with a classic triton, it has less effects on... Korg is crazy....

[Axe2Grind]

I think the future is in software and I also think the manufactures know this, which is why they've not bought out any new sythesis engines for a while because the software based companies are coming out with engines that blow hardware away and would be too complicated/expensive to replicate with hardware. Although not as practical in a live situation as hardware, I know that if I was recording keyboards in a studio, I'd rather be armed with my favourite softsynths and controllers than tackle with hardware, organising patches, samples etc. Integration is just a lot better.
I think you'll start seeing the big names bringing out DSP engines purely to run software based synthesis/sampling so that running software will be more stable and without having all the unneccessary services and application associated with PC operating systems, maybe somebody will devise a music operating system running on a high powered DSP engine rack or keyboard version which can run software with hardware reliablity.

[Deceit]

Le is absolutely a great piece of machine if you don't plan to record studio material with huge effects...I mean, it works perfectly in gigs, it's light and you can take a lot of different sounds out of it since the root engine is the same as Triton Classic. You can complain about cheesy keys...but I still think it was a great buy.
Who knows why Jordan still uses a Karma and hasn't upgraded to a Triton ProX? Isn't the keyboard cheesy as the one on Triton Le? Is it special for, who knows, strange features or so on?
I just remember it has complex arpeggiator functions but...who uses arpeggiators actually? I've never thought of a good employment in our genres...We're not dance freaks :).
Deceit.

[Tusker]

Keyboards are becoming computers and the life cycles are shorter - following the same market structure.

Best,

Jerry

[Deceit]

But, hey, for 800 € you get a great pc while with the same money you find it hard to get a keyboard as good. So I hope the prices low down, if the logic is the same.
Deceit.

[Mike Martin]

I'll jump in. :D

The Motif ES was introduced exactly two years after the original Motif, but didn't begin shipping for several months after its announcement. The original Motif is also not discontinued.

I don't think the Motif ES is a "repackaged" instrument. Honestly, I wish it hadn't been named "Motif". It is so different under the hood, not just the samples, effects and the polyphony but the sound of its filters is remarkably different. Just to be clear, I think the Motif ES is a major leap over the original -
More than double the ROM
Twice the polyphony
8x the effects
1 gig of RAM
New Filters, faster envelopes.

Are you suggesting that when we can make a technological leap such as this that we wait?

The fact is with technology products there is always going to be progress. It has all happened to us, we go and buy and Apple G4 and then Apple announces the G5. Does it make the G4 any less of a computer than when you bought it? No! Likewise the original Motif is still a great instrument. I don't think any instruments (electronic or acoustic) are disposable. Hell, I own Yamaha, Kurzweil, Roland, Korg and EMU products! You bought a Motif to fill a particular need. The fact that we released a new product does not make the original Motif less useful.

In addition to asking why companies release new products, perhaps you should also look at the changes that have been made from model to model. I think Yamaha has made a HUGE jump from the original Motif to the ES. Most companies only been able to make minimal changes.

Just some examples.
K2500 -> K2600 ->K2661

Triton, Triton Studio, Triton LE, Triton Extreme

and perhaps the most interesting...
Roland Fantom-X January 2004
Roland Fantom-S January 2003
Roland Fantom July 2001

[Scrap]

Guys, this is nothing new. Keyboard companies, from what I've seen so far, generally work with 5-7 year product cycles. This is especially evident in the evolution of Korg's product line (M1, 01/W, Wavestation, Trinity, Triton). In between the years of R&D, they've -always- milked each workstation for what it's worth (IIRC, there were 3 01/W models, and 4-5 Trinity models).

Who knows why Jordan still uses a Karma and hasn't upgraded to a Triton ProX? Isn't the keyboard cheesy as the one on Triton Le? Is it special for, who knows, strange features or so on?
I just remember it has complex arpeggiator functions but...who uses arpeggiators actually? I've never thought of a good employment in our genres...We're not dance freaks.

Arpeggiators are not limited to dance music in the least - dynamic, variable phrasing, such as on the KARMA, can be used to a great extent on orchestral setups. Arpeggiators in general tend to get a bad rap because of their ability to create what some people feel is 'an instant song' at the press of the button - which can be true, but if you happen to use a preset, your preset song is going to sound just like someone else's preset song. If you want to use it in a unique way, you create your own patterns. This is where it stops becoming instant gratification and starts becoming a constructive tool.

I've tried to defend and explain the capabilities of the Karma time after time, and it never seems to get through to anyone. But in any case, if you think the KARMA's technology (which is so much more than a standard arpeggiator) is not adaptable to progressive-style genres, just listen to 4NYC. There are tons of modified Karma presets all over it. :P

[hephiroth]

i totally agree with scrap. the first time i saw a karma in the store, i had the guy explain it to me, and he actually sort of knew what was going on. immediately saw that this was not just a glorified arpeggiator. i really wanted to buy one...but i did not have the $$, alas...oh well

-jeff-