Dream Theater Identity Crisis

[pmarafio]

I just got home from attempting to see a Dream Theater show. I say "attempting" because I couldn't survive the High School Battle of the Bands show that has been billed as the "Gigantour".

The bands on the bill had names like "Agony Life" "Nevermore" "Dry Kill", etc...I'm sure you get the idea - it was truly "agony" to endure, and it will be "nevermore" that I attend a show with those clowns!

The name of the game was crank the Marshalls, over-saturate the kick drum, scream profanity in the mic, spin your long blonde hair around to the beat - a steady 130 bpm for every song with an occasional half-time measure or two. I don't recall any songs having more than 2 or 3 chords; I don't recall a meaningful lyric - just brutal middle school noise.

After enduring 3 or 4 of these pathetic horror-show bands, I looked at my watch and realized that Jordan and the Theater were still two hours away. I couldn't take it....I headed for the exits and drove home.

I'm not exactly sure what Dream Theater was thinking when they decided to participate in this tour. Last year they toured with Yes, a quality band albeit way past their prime. Now they have decided to entertain the Beavis and Butthead set. Five super-talented schooled musicians in their 30s and 40s catering to the middle school set. Go figure! Are they attempting to bring in a new younger audience? Strange, since last year's double bill with Yes was filled with 50-60 year olds!

By the way, the place was only half-filled, and it was not a large venue. So much for expanding their audience.

I'm pissed! I hate to waste four hours only to return home unfulfilled! 40 bucks in gas, 45 bucks for the ticket, 3 hours in the car, and all I have to show for it is a headache! I like to try and find the musical value in any show I see. I don't like knocking musicians, but the crud I saw tonight was not music - it was a sonic abortion.

I can only imagine what goes through Jordan's mind when he hears the Agony Dry Kill Death Band. A few months ago I saw Jordan perform in Manhattan with Rod Morganstein, creating exciting and inspiring music for a crowd of people who came to see Rudess Morganstein and Porcupine Tree - two superb musical units. The level of musicality on stage that night was extremely high.

Now he's in Pougkeepsie on the bill of a pathetic battle of the bands show - very sad! Hopefully Dream Theater will shed this crew, rethink where they are going, and do a tour on their own. They owe it to their loyal dedicated fans.

[Farren]

You left because you didn't like the opening bands? Well, then you're a moron. You're not noble for walking out.

Know what I did during Dry Kill Logic and Life of Agony? I sat in the lobby and ate some nachos. I didn't bitch about it, because they're on the bill, too. What can I do? You paid about a hundred dollars to indulge your snotty tastes and instead left early, bitter and lonely. No pity here. I drove 6 hours to my show, saw four great bands (Dream Theater, Symphony X, Megadeth and Nevermore) and was thankful that I could see that many good bands under one roof for the small price of $50 a ticket. The only thing that sounds middle school is your immature whining. Act your age, grandpa, and tough it out.

Sorry you missed the show. Everyone I saw was absolutely loving it. Yes, adults too.

[Alucard]

pmarafio, didnt you know that there were openining bands that you dont like?

I'm sure i could endure 4 hours of Britney Spears opening just to see Jens or Jordan after!!! (AND IT WOULD BE A REAL TRIAL)

I'm certain that you could handle the situation differently.......

P.S I really dont see any Dream Theater Identity Crisis, havent you listened to the track n° "8" of the last album?

:rolleyes:

Anyway all the above it's only my humble opinion

[pmarafio]

Yeah, I thought there would be some acts i didn't like. I just wish I knew when DT was scheduled to come on so I didn't have to endure those bands for hours. It would help if the schedule was listed prior to driving out to the venue.

The reference to "identity crisis" was just my opinion that DT seems to be struggling with the right acts to partner with for these shows. I just think that they are a superb band that really doesn't fit very well with the crew on the Gigantour. They are far more progressive and musically sophisticated than anything I heard tonight.

[calmar]

I'm sure i could endure 4 hours of Britney Spears opening just to see Jens or Jordan after!!!
That's how a real fan have to talk ;)
I go to the Montreal show on sept 2, and I don't like many of the opening groups, I go to the show almost only to see DT (my first DT show... one of my first show ever... anyway) and the show will be recorded for DVD, so even if there is a lot of groups I don't like, I'm sure it's gonna be a great show.
Dave

[Farren]

Yeah, I thought there would be some acts i didn't like. I just wish I knew when DT was scheduled to come on so I didn't have to endure those bands for hours. It would help if the schedule was listed prior to driving out to the venue.

The reference to "identity crisis" was just my opinion that DT seems to be struggling with the right acts to partner with for these shows. I just think that they are a superb band that really doesn't fit very well with the crew on the Gigantour. They are far more progressive and musically sophisticated than anything I heard tonight.

The schedule was listed. It's called the Official Website.

Progsnob poster-boy. You don't seem to realize that DT considers it an honor to co-headline with Megadeth, that Mike Portnoy especially is a huge fan of metal music (including Symphony X, one of the opening bands that Mike highly recommended join the tour), and that Dream Theater like a lot of non-progressive music. Get over yourself.

[hephiroth]

hey, they may not have been perfectly fitted to that audience, but then i wouldn't pit fear factory and megadeth in the same batch if left to my own devices, either. point is, they can BRING a lot of fans to a tour like that, as well as have some fans that like other bands. it's not as weird as if they'd been on an a coldplay/incubus tour or something like that.

and i don't know about where you saw them, but in chicago, the venue sent e-mails out to ticketholders with performance schedules, so i knew when to get there to miss the acts i didn't want to catch. you could have called the venue before going--i'm SURE they had the schedule earlier that day.

-jeff-

[Liquid Shadow]

I'm so posting in this thread tomorrow, and so making a complete fool out of the thread starter.

[Ael]

The schedule was listed. It's called the Official Website.

Progsnob poster-boy. You don't seem to realize that DT considers it an honor to co-headline with Megadeth, that Mike Portnoy especially is a huge fan of metal music (including Symphony X, one of the opening bands that Mike highly recommended join the tour), and that Dream Theater like a lot of non-progressive music. Get over yourself.

Okay, after two comments like that I think you deserve a piece of my mind or maybe some words.

One, you don't get your point across by slamming other members, I don't give a fuck who you are, he didn't disresepct you, you don't need to be an asshole and shove your opinion like that.

I was at the show and actually met up with Pat. We missed Symphony X because Nevermore was getting on stage. THe guitar solos were weak, I could not understand a word he was saying (and i was in the back so the sound should theoretically even out back there), the kick drums made me fucking sick and the sound was just a wall of chords and hair. Okay, I'm sure they sound great on cd, but maybe at this particular show, live, they were bad.

Life of Agony was agonizing, the songs sucked, I couldn't understand a thing he said, terrible performance, terrible sound, whoever was working sound should be ashamed.

My friends and I left to get food while the next band went on because we couldn't take this same noise and constant bass drum pounding through my ribs, that's when pat left. We made it back in time for Fear Factory which I may check out a cd or two, they opened up and they actually had some decent songs, not totally my kind of music, but decent songs and it was more interesting to listen to and easier to get into than Life of Agony.

Okay, so when Dream Theater comes on, their sound is amazing (and I was up against the stage), I understood every word from Labrie, everything was dead on note perfect, an entirely balls and chunk set, but it was heavy without being redundant and stupid. They had attitude, the setlist was awesome, and personally I'm glad I waited, but I do agree with Pat.

I don't think you need to shove your face on here and after he expressed an opinion to be an ass and call people names and just be disrespectful and rude. Personally, I think that Dream Theater and Megadeth should have done a coheadlining tour and that's it, not included these other bands as openers. Just because Mike admires a band and considers it an honor doesn't mean that every single Dream THeater fan needs to accept it and go "well if mike likes megadeath, then gigantour will be awesome and even if it isnt we should say it is because mike respects them" bla bla bla. That kind of assasine and immature attitude gets you nowhere.

[Farren]

Ael: I don't care if the guy likes the bands. I don't agree with Dave Mustaine's choice of openers, either, for the most part. The fact is his initial post was disrespectful and rude in every possible way to all the bands on the tour and even DT. He combined band names, he, for the most part, refused to call the bands by their real names, he suggested Dream Theater is having some sort of issues if they tour with such 'musically inferior' bands, etc etc... I know you're a fellow card-holder and as such must defend your buddy, but he was asking for it.

He commuted to a concert to see Dream Theater and LEFT early because he couldn't tolerate the other bands. This is his fault and it's absolutely ridiculous in every way. What was keeping him from waiting in the lobby? What possessed him to start this thread, making himself look like an intolerant, close-minded old man? After visiting his website, I can just see it: him standing at the back of the pit with his arms crossed, all huffy and feeling superior. At least this thread supplied me with that laughable imagery.

He would've gotten a completely different response out of me and others who will likely share my views had he only been mature with his 'review.' I find it completely inane that he would walk out before the headliners took the stage. I mean, Dream Theater has been less than 12 hours from me only once in the past 3 or 4 years of touring. I wasn't about to miss the show if, like someone said before me, Britney Spears was opening. The fact that he simply threw away his chance to see DT is frustrating enough for those of us that can't see them every tour. When he posts his condescending bullshit, it only fuels the fire. There was a proper way of going about this, and the best probably would have been keeping his mouth shut.

If you have a problem with my age cracks, note the multiple mentions of various grade-levels denoting poor quality of music in the threadstarter's post.

Liquid Shadow and I agree, wtf?

[TheMagician]

I'm busy trying to figure out how I can afford to travel half the world to see Dream Theater (and other similar bands that will NEVER tour NZ). I'm saving like crazy so I can do so one day. You talk $85 and 3 hours in a car. I'm probably talking 15-20 times that much money and 12+ hours flying to do it.

I struggle to comprehend making it that far and then not enduring rain, hail, hell or high water to see my heroes do their thing!

I know some people are blessed by the luxury of having awesome bands tour their countries, I just wish people wouldn't take it for granted!!!! I guess I could get complacent if I'd seen them 4-5 times already - oh what a dream that'd be! I'm figuring I'll get to see them maybe once ever if at all. This kind of waste of an experience I'd soooo dearly love to experience just once kinda bites to the bone lol.

EDIT:

He would've gotten a completely different response out of me and others who will likely share my views had he only been mature with his 'review.' I find it completely inane that he would walk out before the headliners took the stage. I mean, Dream Theater has been less than 12 hours from me only once in the past 3 or 4 years of touring. I wasn't about to miss the show if, like someone said before me, Britney Spears was opening. The fact that he simply threw away his chance to see DT is frustrating enough for those of us that can't see them every tour. When he posts his condescending bullshit, it only fuels the fire. There was a proper way of going about this, and the best probably would have been keeping his mouth shut.

Exactly my point - you beat me to it lol

[Thefunkygibbons]

I never quite understand complaints about the package tours

DT will be back later in the year with An Evening with, so perhaps people ought to do a little research and then decide

Me, I never go to a gig with owning some discs by each of the artists first, but that is just me

[Semmi78]

Fully agree with the last one. Don't complain either. You knew beforehand which bands were on the list. The internet is very usefull to find information in case you didn't know. I always like to see other bands, even if they play 1,5 chords. Oh well, in that case i am into drinking beer, but that's also nice!

[Everlasting_Rain]

Agree. And about the opening bands bad sound... it could be due to a lack of time in soundcheck. I've suffered being the opener of a big band and having just 20 minutes for the soundcheck. I haven't heard those bands you mentioned so I'm not defending them in particular, I just want to state that sometimes opening bands bad sound, disturbing kick-drum and unrecognisable vocals is not their fault.

[jr612]

you know most of the dream theater's fans went to gingatour only to see dream theater (incluing myself).......I knew a lot of people there who hate nevermore....fear factory...ect....but the best of all was to see dream theater and megadeth....so it doesnt matter if i the others band were after......dont you think>>>

[maJ estY]

Leaving the venue before the band I want to see comes on stage would be the very LAST thing I would do. No matter which opening acts there would be. I would most likely prefer someone like Britney to a death metal band (or let's say someone who at least looks good ;) ), but I'd just become more excited to finally see DT.

However, Mike said that Dream Theater is a kind of a cameleon in reference to which music they can play live. They can play with Yes on a tour, and the Yes fans would love DT for their "softer" songs, and they go on tour with Megadeth, and the Megadeth fans who've never heard of DT before would love them, too, because of their heavier songs.
I've got a yet unreleased source that Mike would have been happier with a different band list, but in the end, it's Dave Mustaine's decision which bands go with them.

However, if I go to a DT's "An Evening With..." show, I know that they would play everything, from soft to heavy. But if I go to a Gigantour show, I know very good what I have to expect.

Of course, you're pissed now, pmarafio, but why did you leave early? If you didn't want to see the other bands, you could have gone anywhere else until DT is on stage. I don't really get that! If you went to the Gigantour to see DT, you don't have to think that you have to see the other bands, too...

[Alucard]

I would most likely prefer someone like Britney to a death metal band (or let's say someone who at least looks good ),

Ahahahah, that's true...even if i prefer Death Metal to Britney, it should be a BIG PLEASURE for the eyes.....

[Liquid Shadow]

Some of what I have to say has already been touched on, but I will still say it all and try to elaborate a bit on what may have already been posted.

I just got home from attempting to see a Dream Theater show. I say "attempting" because I couldn't survive the High School Battle of the Bands show that has been billed as the "Gigantour".


You survived well enough to get on the internet and complain about it. And it was not a battle of the bands, and not even remotely close. It was a collection of heavy metal bands that Dave Mustaine thought would make a quality tour for heavy metal fans. There is no intended competition with this tour, just sharing of music. Aside from that fact, I'd be damned impressed to see any bands with the tight performances of difficult material that some of the bands pulled off - DT, Megadeth, SX, and Nevermore mainly. If that's exactly what a high school battle of the bands is like around you, then I'm definitely raising my children out there.



The bands on the bill had names like "Agony Life" "Nevermore" "Dry Kill", etc...I'm sure you get the idea - it was truly "agony" to endure, and it will be "nevermore" that I attend a show with those clowns!

The name of the game was crank the Marshalls, over-saturate the kick drum, scream profanity in the mic, spin your long blonde hair around to the beat - a steady 130 bpm for every song with an occasional half-time measure or two. I don't recall any songs having more than 2 or 3 chords; I don't recall a meaningful lyric - just brutal middle school noise.



The fact that you lumped Nevermore in with the other groups (and that you belittle the other groups to this as well) as having 2-3 chord songs and meaningless lyrics show just how much of a closed minded elitist you are. What is wrong with their music? Not enough quirky synthesizer sounds and pointless unisons in some fancy time signature for you? I assure you that their music transcends "brutal middle school noise." Just listen to anything off their new album, This Godless Endeavor. Plenty of tasteful use of odd time signatures and a very effective blend of beautiful acoustic work and heavy, earthshaking 7-string grooves. Vocal lines that will stick with you for weeks and plenty of harmony all around. Guitar lines are just as quick as Dream Theater's, the drumming is just as tight, and the songs are just as engaging...once you get past the fact that it's not Mike Portnoy on drums and John Petrucci on guitar. Other bands make good music too, you know, and the fact that you made their music sound so mindlessly simplistic shows that you either made up your mind before you ever even heard them or that you haven't even heard them at all.

Of course, to prove this point I have to rely on your integrity as an open-minded music appreciator, since I cannot post the entire album on this forum. I can, however, make my point about their lyrics.

From "Sentient 6"
I am Sentient #6, I stand in line
I am the prototype mind convenience for mankind
Superiorist digital human flesh so trivial
I hate that I can't see the one that made me

I am the new awakening of different lies
My children, you are my army
They are what we can never see, and still despise
And their sky cries Mary

Friend, I see imperfection in your race
(something I can't quite make out)
Blind I suffer knowing I'll never reach your heaven

Yeah, that's something I expect from a high school band - writing from the point of view of a sentient robot created by mankind, and making intelligent observations about the essence of what it means to be human - whether or not sentient beings are special or not when the possibility exists to create sentient machines, and raising questions to whether or not these machines are somehow below us. Total high schooler material. To be honest, I would be very shocked if Dream Theater's lyrics were as constistant in quality as Nevermore's. Where you have Nevermore writing lyrics like that, you have Dream Theater making songs whining about how some fans don't like them anymore or how their father was abusive and feeling that "had the balls to blame this shit on me" is somehow artistic and necessary to the song.

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. Dream Theater writes some cringeworthy material, so don't bash on other bands that you have no familiarity with at all, because you might make the same exact mistake you made here where you write of intellectual material as some mindless angsty teenage crap, while being a fan of a band who in the past have had songs including the line "well I don't give a shit."

Moving on.


After enduring 3 or 4 of these pathetic horror-show bands, I looked at my watch and realized that Jordan and the Theater were still two hours away. I couldn't take it....I headed for the exits and drove home.


Wow, that's pathetic. I didn't want to see a lot of the bands that were there, so do you know what I did? Brace yourself: I didn't see them. I watched Nevermore's set, went to the second stage for SX's set, and then never returned to the second stage. I did have to endure the ending half of Fear Factory who I did not enjoy at all, but you know what? I knew that they would be done in 30 minutes and that there was a good 3 hours of material from DT/Megadeth that would be coming up, so I sat through it. I got up for awhile and had something to drink, and I sat through a little bit more. I joked around with my buddies a little bit and waited it out.

The fact that you would leave a festival concert before the main band you went to see played their set just because you couldn't figure out this "you don't have to sit through them all" miracle is quite mindboggling to me. Why the hell would you leave after forcing yourself to sit through those bands when there were probably only 1 or 2 short sets before the band you wanted to see?


I'm not exactly sure what Dream Theater was thinking when they decided to participate in this tour.

Hmm, maybe that Dave Mustaine is a MAJOR heavy metal icon and that they would be honored to coheadline with his band? It would make sense, considering that they are a progressive metal band.

Just a thought.

Last year they toured with Yes, a quality band albeit way past their prime. Now they have decided to entertain the Beavis and Butthead set. Five super-talented schooled musicians in their 30s and 40s catering to the middle school set. Go figure! Are they attempting to bring in a new younger audience? Strange, since last year's double bill with Yes was filled with 50-60 year olds!


God forbid that a band appeal to a wide audience and have the versatility to do such different tours, and God forbid that they actually enjoy it. Blasphemy!

I'm pissed! I hate to waste four hours only to return home unfulfilled! 40 bucks in gas, 45 bucks for the ticket, 3 hours in the car, and all I have to show for it is a headache! I like to try and find the musical value in any show I see. I don't like knocking musicians, but the crud I saw tonight was not music - it was a sonic abortion.



45 bucks is a damned fine deal. If it were just Dream Theater, I'm sure you wouldn't have a problem paying that much. In addition, you also (could have) got some quality, intelligent music from Nevermore, Megadeth, and Symphony X, and if you're that closed minded and arrogant to really think of these bands as high school crap, then that's your loss. I would be all too interested in reading posts by you analyzing their music and lyrics. As a matter of fact, I will make a thread just for you to do that after I finish this post.

Most important paragraph of this post:
And if you didn't want to see a majority of the bands there and still went anyways, then that is your fault. There's this thing called the internet that you're using right now. Sometimes there are sites like www.gigantour.com (I know it's difficult to remember that one) where a lot of information is given. In the case of this tour, there are even samples of all the bands that are playing. Imagine that! So don't be a crybaby just because you didn't do your homework before going to this show. You knew damned well that those other bands would be there, and if you didn't take the time to try and check them out and see if it was worth your time, then you are in no position to complain about disappointment. You did it to yourself.

[Liquid Shadow]

I can only imagine what goes through Jordan's mind when he hears the Agony Dry Kill Death Band. A few months ago I saw Jordan perform in Manhattan with Rod Morganstein, creating exciting and inspiring music for a crowd of people who came to see Rudess Morganstein and Porcupine Tree - two superb musical units. The level of musicality on stage that night was extremely high.


What made that performance any more musical than that of Symphony X or Nevermore on the Gigantour stages? I'm tempted to believe that it's nothing more than your own closed-minded elitism and lack of experience with the bands you are bashing on (Nevermore in particular).

And if you're going to take the road of technicality = musicality, then Rudess ain't shit compared to guys like Chick Corea or Allan Holdsworth. If you want to talk about actual musicality, then Nevermore sits head and shoulders above Dream Theater's latest offerings. This Dying Soul - need I say more? Nevermore's songs are written around their concepts, and the lines are delivered with the atmosphere appropriate for the point being made. Dream Theater, while having some great moments like this, also have a lot of stupid and pointless shit that doesn't do a damned thing musically except get all of the fanboys excited over the fast 16th notes. That's not musicality, that's masturbation.



Now he's in Pougkeepsie on the bill of a pathetic battle of the bands show - very sad! Hopefully Dream Theater will shed this crew, rethink where they are going, and do a tour on their own. They owe it to their loyal dedicated fans.


1. They are going to be touring on their own. Once again, you have failed to do your homework.

2. Who are you to determine what it means to be a loyal, dedicated fan, and what the band "owes" to those fans?

[gaz]

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. Dream Theater writes some cringeworthy material, so don't bash on other bands that you have no familiarity with at all, because you might make the same exact mistake you made here where you write of intellectual material as some mindless angsty teenage crap, while being a fan of a band who in the past have had songs including the line "well I don't give a shit."

I recall making that exact same argument against you not to long ago when you went about bashing fear factory.

Careful there my freind, would'nt want to contradict yourself or anything.

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone..."

indeed.

You made some valid points in the above 2 posts but nothing that really hasnt already been touched on. i think its safe to say its unfair to build walls around yourself from hearing certain types of music because of preconceptions and a few songs that arent your thing, and its even more unfair on yourself to walk out of a show in a scenario like this because of those preconceptions.

[gaz]

Where you have Nevermore writing lyrics like that, you have Dream Theater making songs whining about how some fans don't like them anymore...

Wow... the damndest thing just happened.

(read the lyrics again.)

or how their father was abusive and feeling that "had the balls to blame this shit on me" is somehow artistic and necessary to the song.

The song was about Mike's step father. This time, you have failed to do your homework.

If you want to talk about actual musicality, then Nevermore sits head and shoulders above Dream Theater's latest offerings. This Dying Soul - need I say more? Nevermore's songs are written around their concepts,

As opposed to "This Dying Soul", the example you just mentioned? wow. I really feel like im stating the obvious here, but this dying soul is the 2nd song in Mikes ''AA series'' Dealing with his former alcohol addiction. Even the latest album is conceptual in a way, you just have to look harder.

and the lines are delivered with the atmosphere appropriate for the point being made. Dream Theater, while having some great moments like this, also have a lot of stupid and pointless shit that doesn't do a damned thing musically except get all of the fanboys excited over the fast 16th notes. That's not musicality, that's masturbation.

I beg to differ. If it doesnt do a damn thing for you, thats fine, but i think you are being incredibly harsh. Personally, i dont understand how people liken music to masturbation. even as a joke. If the music requires blazing 32nd note unison runs, then so be it.
If i was dream theater i certainly would not have a light acoustic ballad or a soulful jazzy interlude to musically go along with the story of Mike's most brutal, challenging, life altering experiences - giving up his addiction. You may chuckle at this but alcohol addiction is certainly no laughing matter.

Unfortunately, having never heard 'nevermore' i am in no position to bash them. If i had, here is where i would do it;

Learn not to be a prick and stop trapping yourself in your own logic! just follow this easy example:

Personally, i dislike [Band]. They just dont do it for me. [Band Member]'s voice gets on my nerves. I feel the music is compositionally too intense for me to listen to over a long period of time, and far too constant.
I do however appreciate and respect [Band Member], his drumming was out of this world and really suited the music.
[Band]'s lyrics seem awkward and out of place but since i have only heard what they played live, im not really in any position to judge them as people.
I have enourmous respect however, for anyone who can get up on stage and do what they did so i tip my hats to them. Just not my cup of tea.

(im being sarcastic. I dont actually expect you to say this but its there as guide for you, because you seem incapable of recognising and appreciating something that doesnt necessarily appeal to you.)

Seriously mate, im just having a go at you. Nothing against you personally, so dont get all defensive. Just learn to appreciate. before it is too late. 'cause they can only take so much of your ungrateful ways... everything is never enough.

0-12-10-0-10-12-0-etc etc...

[Scrap]

everything is never enough.

Nobody asked Mike to be a rock star... and that $80,000-$150,000 per arena sellout in Europe must be pretty sweet.

[mlunapiena01]

uh... just to exapnd slightly on gaz's post, what he was getting at with that sarcastic bit was this: straight out bashing is generally unwelcomed, however constructive criticism (ie where you analyze & highlight the strengths AND faults) will generally be accepted and welcomed without much of a problem... sure somebody might disagree with your opinion, but it means you presented yourself maturely and with respect, which is really all anyone can ask for.

[MetalliJedi]

I really don´t understand why you left.

2 years ago I went to the Summer Sanitarium, a "festival" with Deftones, Mudvayne, Limp Bizkit, Linkin Park and Metallica.

I didn´t like much MudVayne and Deftones, I didn´t liked Linkin Park and I hated Limp Bizkit (and they dared to cover For Whom The Bells Toll just 30 minutes or so before Metallica stepped in). I just spent time in the lobby and looking for food, etc while this bands played.

I wanted to see Metallica and I stayed until I saw Metallica.


I would definitely do the same if I had the money to see the gigantour. I would check out Megadeth.

[gaz]

Nobody asked Mike to be a rock star...

I guess you wouldnt have any objections if he walked away tomorrow then...

Nobody asked him to be a rockstar, just like nobody asked him to make a messageboard and a website so people like us have the opportunity to talk and share our opinions? What would you do if that was taken away from you?

Just like how nobody asked you to even post in this thread? What if that was taken from you? What if Jordan and the guys all of a sudden decided they have had enough of the endless bitching and decided to take all the forums down, all the websites, and call it a day and retire?
It wouldnt be that bad, i guess. Nobody asked them to do it in the first place, right?

and that $80,000-$150,000 per arena sellout in Europe must be pretty sweet.

Just to clarify:
"Actually all DT’s money goes into a big melting pot which maintains our weekly salaries, so all my big checks and chunks come from outside side-projects or drum clinic/instructional related activities. The last big check I got was around $30,000.00." -Portnoy

But i think if i was in his position the money would not matter much if i didnt have the respect of my fans.
Fortunately this is a limited thing and these days you dont see that much outright DT-bashing, so thats okay. This case is an exception.

[Omega Monkey]

I just have to say the first post in this thread is totally ridiculous. It's been well publicized for MONTHS that Gigantour would be focused on metal bands. So if you dont like metal bands, it's PROBABLY not such a good idea to go, and ESPECIALLY not to go really early before DT goes on. But leaving early? Thats just pointless. Instead of at least salvaging what you could from a less than perfect (for you at least) experience, maybe taking some downtime away from the action and coming back for DT, you just left, effectively turning the whole experience into a loss. I don't really have any doubt that if you had stayed for DT's set, you would have left satisfied and happy. But I guess we'll never know. But your actions/comments certainly don't show that you excercised the best judgement possible in the situation.

[Farren]

I love it how pmarafio never responded to any of his criticism, despite the fact that he's been around since posting this. I'm sure this thread is quite embarrassing for him. I'm glad more people were able to see it though :)

[pmarafio]

Response is under the pmarafio thread - enough already.

I'm not embarassed at all. I voiced an opinion. That is what these forums are for.

[Liquid Shadow]

The song was about Mike's step father. This time, you have failed to do your homework.


Trivial detail, and one that I was already aware of. Stepfather or real father, it makes no difference in the point that I was making.


As opposed to "This Dying Soul", the example you just mentioned? wow. I really feel like im stating the obvious here, but this dying soul is the 2nd song in Mikes ''AA series'' Dealing with his former alcohol addiction. Even the latest album is conceptual in a way, you just have to look harder.


So you're saying that the painfully long and pointless unison at the end of This Dying Soul is musically and conceptually relevant to the concept behind the song?


I beg to differ. If it doesnt do a damn thing for you, thats fine, but i think you are being incredibly harsh. Personally, i dont understand how people liken music to masturbation. even as a joke. If the music requires blazing 32nd note unison runs, then so be it.
If i was dream theater i certainly would not have a light acoustic ballad or a soulful jazzy interlude to musically go along with the story of Mike's most brutal, challenging, life altering experiences - giving up his addiction. You may chuckle at this but alcohol addiction is certainly no laughing matter.


I think that DT have plenty of high quality musical moments, and I certainly don't expect an acoustic ballad about alcoholism. But are you really denying that there is a noticable amount of instrumental writing that is technical just to be technical, or flashy just to be flashy? That's when it becomes musical masturbation, because it ceases to be about the song and begins to be about showing off how much you know. That's not what music is about.


Unfortunately, having never heard 'nevermore' i am in no position to bash them. If i had, here is where i would do it;

Learn not to be a prick and stop trapping yourself in your own logic! just follow this easy example:

Personally, i dislike [Band]. They just dont do it for me. [Band Member]'s voice gets on my nerves. I feel the music is compositionally too intense for me to listen to over a long period of time, and far too constant.
I do however appreciate and respect [Band Member], his drumming was out of this world and really suited the music.
[Band]'s lyrics seem awkward and out of place but since i have only heard what they played live, im not really in any position to judge them as people.
I have enourmous respect however, for anyone who can get up on stage and do what they did so i tip my hats to them. Just not my cup of tea.

(im being sarcastic. I dont actually expect you to say this but its there as guide for you, because you seem incapable of recognising and appreciating something that doesnt necessarily appeal to you.)




Is this directed at me or the thread starter? If he had voiced his distaste for the bands like that, it would have been a matter of taste and I wouldn't care at all, but the whole thing about their "3 chord songs" and weak lyrical writing was out of left field and showed how closed minded pmarafio is about the heavy metal realm of music.

[Liquid Shadow]

I love it how pmarafio never responded to any of his criticism

Considering the closed minded ignorance displayed in his original post, I don't really expect any solid replies from him.

[calmar]

It's nice to see how people like to reply with 98456151 messages to a single post, and to say almost the same thing in each post. Always the same "Bla bla bla closed minded... bla bla pmarafio closed minded... closed minded bla bla bla..." And then another post, another one, then another one, and another one, then Enigma come and close the thread. What a beautiful way to express our opinion.

Don't you think that the opinions of a person maybe differents that yours? Maybe pmarafio doesn't expressed his opinion correctly, but I think that to post 98456151 messages to fool the person is as pointless as the initial post, even more. I don't think he is closed minded, he only doesn't like it. Britney Spears is music, so if you don't like Britney Spears, you are closed minded??

I'm asking who is the most closed minded here now...

Dave


(And remember, this is *MY* opinion)

[hephiroth]

calmar-

i agree with you 100 percent. i'll admit i posted on the first page of this thread, but then i stopped reading it when i saw posts that took several screens to scroll through. it's not even worth responding to because i'm sure the original poster hasn't or won't read any of these lengthy explanations about why he was wrong.

oh, how i love the internet

-jeff-

[gaz]

Trivial detail, and one that I was already aware of. Stepfather or real father, it makes no difference in the point that I was making.

My point here was you criticised pmarafio for not doing research on the music he is criticising, and then you made a similar judgement with an error yourself, defying your own standards for adequate prior knowledge to band bashing.
Its not trivial, and it does make a difference...
The point you are trying to make here is an arrogant way of saying "I cant relate to the lyrics, so i find it uninteresting and out of place."
Even that would of been fine, but you didnt have your facts straight and thus missed the point of the entire song.
But instead of saying that, you made claims that the music is 'unartistic' and 'un-necessary'....

Heres Portnoy's comments on the song:

Let me clear this up right now.... It is NOT directed at my father, Howard Portnoy...we have a GREAT relationship and I love him dearly... It is aimed directly at somebody else in my immediate family.... If you take the key word from the title as well as the key word from the bridge (Crooked _____), you can figure out who it was written for... [note: he means 'step father']
I've never been ghood at writing love songs, so i decided to write a HATE song!!!!

Lets examine your claims mathematically:

You say it IS (note: you didnt say, ''personally i think it is'') unartistic. so:

Honor Thy Father = Unartistic. However,

Music = Art.
Emotion + Feeling = Art.
Hate = Emotion.
Therefore,
Honor Thy Father = Artistic.

Wether you like it or not, or can relate to it or not relate to it is another matter. If you say it is unartistic however, you are wholly incorrect. Music is by definition, artistic. Deal with it. Hate is as valid an emotion as anything else.

As for the ''un-necessary'' comment:

So you're saying that the painfully long and pointless unison at the end of This Dying Soul is musically and conceptually relevant to the concept behind the song?

Firstly, before i go in-depth on this, The unison goes for a whopping 50 whole seconds. The only scenario i can imagine this being "Painfully" long, is if i was busting to go to the bathroom but wanted to finish listening to the song beforehand. Otherwise, you just must be pretty impatient. If you cant deal with 50 seconds being allocated for a unison lead, clearly prog music is not for you.
But pointless? I would love to hear how you, the almighty god and creator of music, would have finished writing the song if it was your place to say.

But its not.

Here's your problem. You fail to see the line between your own opinion and fact. To answer your question, do i deem that the solo IS relevant to the concept behind the song, I wont have a straight answer.
If you had rephrased it however to ask if i personally THINK it is relevant to the song my answer would be yes. Im sure if you had gone through, or had ANY idea of the emotions that can be triggered through alcohol-related stress/depression, you might agree yourself. Since you dont, thats okay, and i would have most likely accepted and embraced your opinion, had you not likened it to masturbation.

I think that DT have plenty of high quality musical moments, and I certainly don't expect an acoustic ballad about alcoholism. But are you really denying that there is a noticable amount of instrumental writing that is technical just to be technical, or flashy just to be flashy? That's when it becomes musical masturbation, because it ceases to be about the song and begins to be about showing off how much you know. That's not what music is about.

Denying? wow. i dont 'deny' anything. I know what youre trying to say here but you cant seem to word it right. again you are under the impression that opinion = fact.
Do i think that the instrumental sections are technical just to be technical? hell no. If you think its just about showing off then thats your problem. Deal with it. Skip to the next track. If you are prepared to block off SOO much
music because you choose to interpret it as ''wanking'', ''masturbation'',
''flashy just to be flashy'', then that is the textbook definition of close-minded-ness.

"That's not what music is about."
I would love to know what you THINK music is about. Want to know what i think its about?

Whatever the hell you want it to be. If it requires a unison run, then god damn, use one. Do you think these guys practice for nothing? Its all about ability. If you have the technique, the sky is the limit. Why NOT do a unison run?

CALMAR AND HEPHIROTH, READ THIS:
Since you both dismiss the lengthy posts as more and more attacks on the original poster, and have questions about close-mindedness:

Music is an art. As i have already said. So much emotion goes into writing it. No matter what genre or style it is, theres emotion and feeling going into it. You cant deny that.
Its the emotion coming out of the music that is the centre of debate here. Things like this are purely subjective and can only be argued back and forth so many times before it is finally realised that each party is merely representing their own opinions and interpretations. Now the problem here is people are so arrogant they cant represent their own opinions properly, and they criticise the music in such a way that is rude and uncalled for.
Now thats one thing, its another when someone who is guilty themselves of doing these things is hypocritical by attacking someone else for also being rude and making unfounded comments.

Is this directed at me or the thread starter? If he had voiced his distaste for the bands like that, it would have been a matter of taste and I wouldn't care at all, but the whole thing about their "3 chord songs" and weak lyrical writing was out of left field and showed how closed minded pmarafio is about the heavy metal realm of music.

All directed at you. Do yourself a favour and read it, closely this time. Most of it has seemed to fly right over your head.

My overall point here, is that even though someone had to but pmarafio in his place, it wasnt you. You need to back off and hold out on ''owning'' people for awhile until you can write a paragraph without contradicting yourself. Good luck with that.

[keys76]

And with this reply, this thread ends....


"Can't we all just get along"

I really hope some people took a lesson out of this thread.
Respect each other. This is not the place for flame wars.
If you want to flame each other, go ahead but use your own email address or MSN or whatever...but not this Forum.

Jeroen