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LDGuy
07-07-2005, 02:55 PM
I found this on drummerworld, it's fascinating.

I know it's a drummer not a keyboardist or anything harmonic, but you guys can all relate to it. It would be cool to do something like this using melodic instruments.

http://www.drummerworld.com/Clinic/Gavin_Harrison.html
Mitt
07-08-2005, 02:35 AM
This is the Porcupine Tree's drummer 'Gavin Harrison' and yes he is incredible on drums !!! Woow nice video !
Rudess
07-08-2005, 08:09 AM
YES!!!
That is cool.
Thanks for posting.

JR
nismael
07-08-2005, 08:18 AM
Yeah that's very great! It remembers me of a video I saw a while ago. The guy was using all sort of windows sound and the Windows recorder to create a fascinating song! I think there was a post about this on the forum. Anybody remembers what I'm talking about? If so, could you please post a link to it?
Grey Loki
07-08-2005, 08:25 AM
Just so i've got the concept straight, it's taking four (or more?) seperate drum beats, totally unrelated, and then playing them together at the same tempo?

Or have I missed something somewhere along the line?
LDGuy
07-08-2005, 09:44 AM
@rudess: it's very cool isn't it. thanks for replying!

@nismael: http://www.loveit-or-leaveit.com/flash/windowssong.html

@Grey Loki: No, they're not random drum beats. They are all connected to eachother through complex polyrhythms.

The first beat is in a triplet feel, a jazz groove with brushes. This is established first, before the second beat comes in.

The second groove is in a straight feel, taking each note of the triplets in the first groove to be a 16th note. You then get a 4 over 3 phrasing.

The third beat is in 6/8, taking each triplet quarter note of the first groove, or each 8th note from the second beat, to be one or the six 8th notes in it. This forms a 6 over 4 over 3 phrasing.

The final beat is in 5/8, taking each 8th note from the previous three grooves (and triplet quarter from the first beat) to be one of it's five 8th notes. The rhythm is a 2-3 phrasing of five.

The final polyrhythm forms 5 over 6 over 4 over 3.

If you've followed me, i'm pretty impressed since it's quite complicated and i haven't explained it very well.
nismael
07-08-2005, 12:18 PM
hehe thx dude that's it!
ChrisMcCoy
07-08-2005, 01:17 PM
Wouldn't it be interesting to do something similar with the keyboard over a drum track, starting with a basic drum groove and adding 3 or 4 simple keyboard parts that combine to form a complex "keyboard'' groove.

:)
Grey Loki
07-08-2005, 01:57 PM
Ah, I see what you mean, though I didn't say the beats were random, I said they were 'unrelated'. Either way, I see what you mean.

Do I smell an idea for a JRFCD track here?
Morandar
07-10-2005, 07:37 PM
I love when different patterns entwine in a song! Cool video, doing this with the whole group is a brilliant way of composing (much better than guitar riff doubled by bass doubled by keyboards with tum cha tum tum cha by drums).

But readin Porcupine Tree explains all ;)
Semmi78
07-12-2005, 02:13 AM
Haha, that Billy Ward video over there: 'if you can do this, you can also do this!'. Simple but effective!

http://www.drummerworld.com/Clinic/Billy_Ward.html
Thefunkygibbons
07-12-2005, 05:03 AM
That was very cool indeed

I can imagine what his DVD is like
Synth519
07-20-2005, 04:18 PM
I found this on drummerworld, it's fascinating.

I know it's a drummer not a keyboardist or anything harmonic, but you guys can all relate to it. It would be cool to do something like this using melodic instruments.

http://www.drummerworld.com/Clinic/Gavin_Harrison.html
Hey, thanks for posting that. I'm primarily a percussionist but I am trying to pick up lots of theory and keyboard skills (that's my main reason for joining this forum, and I'm a big DT fan). I've never seen that clip before strangely enough. I love working with layers like that drummer was. It allows for the more musical side of percussion to shine through.Thanks again for posting it!
Scrap
07-20-2005, 04:31 PM
Wouldn't it be interesting to do something similar with the keyboard over a drum track, starting with a basic drum groove and adding 3 or 4 simple keyboard parts that combine to form a complex "keyboard'' groove.

:)

Ever hear of KARMA? ;)
Liquid Shadow
07-21-2005, 12:24 AM
Just so i've got the concept straight, it's taking four (or more?) seperate drum beats, totally unrelated, and then playing them together at the same tempo?

Or have I missed something somewhere along the line?


It's already been commented on briefly, but I'll comment again anyways because I'm bored :p


It's not actually the "same tempo," as it seems like he's doing some different meter work in each video. Same tempo depends on the pulse for each beat...the 1st and 2nd ones are waaayyy off in terms of tempo, but smaller subdivisions of the beat are played in time with eachother.

1st - 4/4 swing
2nd - 4/4 straight...I didn't try to figure it out, but I'm sure that the triplets for the swing feel are just divided differently, so both have the same 8th notes going on technically, but the first clip would be going 1 2 3, with the italic beats being played (1st and last partial of the triplet) and then the underline being the pulse. The second video could have 8th notes at the same speed, but go 1234 etc. It may or may not be that exact lining up, but that's the concept going on there.
3rd - a 3/4 beat using the same straight counting as the second video. Just a different meter so that it lines up differently each time.
4th - I'm too lazy to figure out for sure what the time sig is there. :p I could, but the other beats are distracting and I'm not really ready to sit here and focus too hard at the moment.
LDGuy
07-21-2005, 05:18 AM
Hey Liquid Shadow. Yeah, thats pretty much right. The second groove is on triplet 1/4 notes when you compare it to the first, and so the first beat plays three beats in the time it takes the second to play two.

The last beat is in 5/8, and still on the same triplet 1/8 notes the first beat is on.
Limited
07-21-2005, 06:36 AM
In fact we treated this topic in school when we talked about some modern types of music, for example "minimal music". Our example was "Drumming" from Steve Reich. And the technique is called "phase shifting" where different patterns together create a "resulting pattern" which you can hear though nobody's playing them.
Liquid Shadow
07-22-2005, 02:23 PM
Actually, phase shifting is quite...weird. And it's different than this. In phase shifting, you take say 4 eighth notes. Two people start off playing them in unison, and then one will start to speed up gradually until the "phase shift" occurs. This is when the first guy is still playing how he was, but the second (who sped up) is now beginning the same 4 note phrase on the second note of the first guy's phrase. So it will go from

12341234
12341234


to


12341234
23412341



Then they will play that and eventually continue to shift until it all lines up once again.







Changing gears, I have made a little peice in the same vein as the original posted video. Check it out: http://www.jordanrudess.com/forum/showthread.php?p=40953#post40953
ChrisMcCoy
07-22-2005, 02:53 PM
Ever hear of KARMA? ;)

Korg Karma ?
Can't say I've been able to test drive one yet.
The last Korg I owned was the DSS-1 Sampler. That was sold in 1995.
C.

I guess if that's refering to simply sequencing would be quite easy...
But to do something live,in real time, well, that would be a bit more challenging
:)