K2600 Questions

[King_Ellesar]

Hey. im thinking about getting a K2600 in the near future and am still learning things about it. I emailed a dealer for a price estimate and he asked me if i wanted my "K2600 with sampling, expanded ROM or other options". what 'other options' like the ones listed above are nessesary to get some real rockin Rudess-like sounds coming out of that thing.

and also, do you reccomend the K2600 or the K2600x? is there a big difference?

Mario

[Kamin]

i would go for the x, i have a 2500s, i would would trade it for a 2500x in the blink of an eye, when playing classical stuff it really helps to have the full board, and the weighted keys are nice too.

[Scrap]

If you don't have a fair amount of experience with keyboards already, and aren't familiar with synthesizer programming, terminology such as sampling, and so on, the K2600 is not for you, simply because the K2600 is -not- a user friendly board.

Here's the situation - people end up getting a K2600 because "Jordan uses it", and have no understanding of what kind of machine it actually is. They open the box, plug it in... and stare at it like a deer in headlights. The presets suck, none of Jordan's sounds are in there (except for one particular lead patch), and they wonder why they can play more simultaneous notes on a $600 keyboard. So, they open the manual, and their eyes glaze over the pages and pages of cold, techno-speak that doesn't even begin to teach you how to do basic things... all of a sudden, the fact that people can make a living programming this monster makes sense. ;)

So, they end up just noodling with presets and occasionally delving into patch modication... thus, using only a small fraction of the keyboard's overall features. About $1300 goes to waste on these features that aren't used.

Now to the point. ;)

The vast majority of Jordan's sounds are programmed by himself and/or sourced from commerical sample CDs, and in theory could be created with any other high-end music workstation. What I'm trying to say is that even though other keyboards sound fundamentally different because of filter types, effects, samples, etc, there is nothing stopping you from getting a "Jordan-esque" sound from another keyboard, such as a Motif, Fantom, Triton, Karma, etc, as long as you have some understanding of programming. Said keyboards are considerably more user friendly and easier to program, as well as considerably cheaper.

Just my two cents.

[King_Ellesar]

thanks for the advice. do you know of an example of a good keyboard out there that is user friendly and is better than my Roland RD700?

P.S. ive watched some of the tutorial videos for the K2600x and most of it seems simple enough for me. but is there more to it then whats on the videos? is it possible to learn the jist of what you have to know from watching them? or would it be better not to mess with it?

[Scrap]

Any of the current music workstation offerings from the big guys would be a very good choice. The Triton, Motif, Fantom, and Karma all fit the bill. See synthguy's Keyboard Overview for some details on these great keyboards. The Korgs in general are the most user-friendly boards around, and they offer a great price-to-feature ratio, especially the Karma.

The K2600 instructional video gives you a basic idea of how to navigate around the keyboard and start using it. IIRC, it doesn't quite delve into programming specific sounds, as opposed to just Setups, though I may be wrong.

[Georges]

If you are a beginner and want to have great presets, while not caring at all about configuring anything else (i.e. you are not playing in a band and you don't need flexibility with key assignements), then you better go for either of the following two instruments:

- Roland Fantom or XV-5080 (the most famous allround instrument, even if the technology may not be the latest a-ha)
- Yamaha Motif ES (because the factory presets are exceptional for such a highly priced workstation)

Forget about Karma and Triton, they will be replaced soon and their technology is more or less no more up-to-date compared to today's standard, no to mention the fact that above all their presets have never been really a strength.

The K2600 is one of the best choices if you play in a band AND intend to use only one synth because it's so flexible that you don't need any other.

[Scrap]

Forget about Karma and Triton, they will be replaced soon and their technology is more or less no more up-to-date compared to today's standard, no to mention the fact that above all their presets have never been really a strength.

The reason why the Triton is one of the best selling keyboards is -because- of its presets, at least in the USA. In the US market, presets are what sells - it doesn't matter how flexible the instrument is, how many total oscillators you have, etc. If it's user-friendly and has 'trendy' presets (hip-hop, dance, and techno, basically), it sells - plain and simple. I see this all the time at the local Guitar Center. People as well as salesmen completely overlook every other keyboard in the pro audio section and go straight to the Triton. The fact that you can record a 'song' with just 2 button presses practically makes the Triton sell itself. Start talking about the K2600 and you'll get a lot of strange looks, and, quite often, the phrase "I've never heard of Kurzweil before."

Meanwhile, Kurzweil products sit in the corner, collecting dust (if you can find them in stores at all)...

[JackJens]

Yamaha Motif Es !

I think it's the right choice.

Great presents & powerfull Gear !

The best buy right NOW !!!

[merijn]

Scrap is right there. There are 2 stores in Holland which sells Kurzweil. I wanted a Kurzweil myself a while ago. It's true, the presets are quite worthless, and there isn't any patch which Jordan uses, only that Liquid-T lead. ON the Instructional video of the K2600X, all those sounds, and triggers are all programmed by himself, they're not standard. Crossfades, that Harp trigger, all done By Jordan. And that is a lot of work! It's a difficult instrument. I went to a shop to play it. It looks cool, and feels good. But I ain't going to pay that much!

A karma/triton is a way better choice! That's the one on top of my list! I played it, and was estonished! Great sounds! Except for the Piano, hehe.

But Georges, what did you say about a replacement? On Korgs website there is an announcement that new gear will be released soon! Could it be the new Triton or Karma?

[Georges]

It's true, the presets are quite worthless, and there isn't any patch which Jordan uses, only that Liquid-T lead.

I'm very sorry to say but you and Scrap are very badly informed, there are actually more sounds than only the Liquid T lead by Jordan in the factory presets. There are many others, and I am not talking about the stock pianos only. If you go through the BOV collection, you can hear many other Jordan classics. Of course, you will not find his latest DT creations of SFAM or 6DOIT but that's normal; you would not release your sounds to other people this easily either ...

As for the preset situation, you are right, unless you own Contemporary and Orchestra ROMs, which allow you to install the Best Of Vast (BOV) objects, and I have to say that THESE presets are of real good quality. So your comments do no more apply.

Triton is a techno (and maybe an orchestra) board, from point of view factory presets; moreover, its piano is really weak compared to Roland, Yamaha and Kurzweil workstations. The K2661 or K2600 w/ROM1&ROM2 offers a far higher sound diversity than the Korg Triton, that's what I know for sure, as I have played Triton as well some time ago. The advantage of Triton are synth sounds and the physical modeling module; presets advantage counts only for certain genres.

[Over The Edge]

Check out both the K2600 and the Motif ES.
They are the current champions in the hardware
workstation arena.



FL
www.franklucas.net

[merijn]

Are there some sound or video samples availeble for the Motif ES? Like the karma :P

Well Georges, I don't a Kurz will suit King Ellesar without those roms. I hav heard ALL the patches of the k2500X. I must confess that it had no Stereo Piano ROM, and no KDFX, but I wasn't impressed.

[Scrap]

The K2661 or K2600 w/ROM1&ROM2 offers a far higher sound diversity than the Korg Triton

Perhaps you may be right, but let's look at the price-to-feature ratio, just for a quick comparison.

New K2600XS with ROMS1&2: $3,895.00 USD
Standard K2600 Expansion Packages: $219.00-319.00 USD

--

Triton Studio 88 with 2 free EXB cards: $3,395.00 USD
EXB-MOSS (VPM/FM Synthesis, PCM, VA, Sondius modeling): $475.00 USD
Standard Korg EXB-PCM Expanisons: $99.00-189.00 USD
Orchestral Expansion (PCM06/07): $380.00 USD

Theoretically, I could get a brand-spanking new TS88 with the EXB-MOSS board, 2 EXB-PCM expansions (the new 16MB piano expansion built in, plus another EXB of your choice) for around $3,870.00 - still coming below the price of a K2600XS. The importance of the MOSS upgrade cannot be overstated - it's what makes the Korgs different from all of the other stale ROMplers (aside from its excellent effects processors), and gives you features that Kurzweil cannot offer. And as for comparing upgrades, the Korg samples are larger (memory wise) and come in around $100 less than Kurzweil's expansions. Whether or not they are superior in quality is left to the user's ear.

[Georges]

Rudess Conspiracy, why compare a K2500 to a K2600 ? It's like comparing Trinity and Triton, or MOTIF and MOTIF ES. You compare 1995 with 2000, that's not realistic...

Agreed, moneywise Kurzweil is a "bad" deal. SOME of the price difference is compensated by its complexity and flexibility - another bunch of it has to do with a smaller company fighting against dinosaurs.

There is ONE main reason why I bought the K: I can assign up to 32 sounds to any key or several keys on my synth (in program mode), so that LIVE, I can play EVERYTHING on one single 76 key keyboard (SP-76) without or with hardly having to switch sounds. Why, if Jordan's sounds use so many external samples according to you, why doesn't he use an Emu or Akai sampler ?

Don't let yourself seduce by presets only. In SUCH a price class, presets is not what you pay for; workstations are designed to be flexible flagships as much on-stage as on the studio. You don't go for an expensive sports car either if you don't know how to handle the underlying PS, even if it looks just better than all the others.

As for the needs of King Ellesar, it's up to him to decide - I'd recommend him something way less expensive than any of the workstations we are talking about here. However, immediately people will be comparing that gear with a MOTIF ES or a K2661, which is certainly as pointless as the discussion we have begun here.

[Kamin]

plus K's dont sell for 3,875 or whatever you said, they sell for 2,800 online, thats a big difference. (and k's have a huge ribbon) :D

[Scrap]

plus K's dont sell for 3,875 or whatever you said, they sell for 2,800 online, thats a big difference. (and k's have a huge ribbon)

The K2600XS (new) is currently listed at Musician's Friend for $3,899.99, $3,895.00 at 8thstreet.com, $3,899.00 at sweetwater.com, $4,095.00 at grandmas.com, $3,899.00 at musician-center.com, and so on. :P

Why, if Jordan's sounds use so many external samples according to you, why doesn't he use an Emu or Akai sampler ?

It is well known that Jordan uses and loads over 100MB of samples on his primary K2600XS live (during the SDoIT tour). Since any modern music workstation can load samples, why would anyone bother themselves with using a standalone sampler anymore? For Jordan, it is simply more convienient for him to have all of his samples in his keyboard right 'under his hands', so to speak.

another bunch of it has to do with a smaller company fighting against dinosaurs.

Kurzweil is owned by Young Chang, Korg is owned by Yamaha. Is there really a difference here? ;) They are both large companies by their own right.

[Georges]

Kurzweil is owned by Young Chang, Korg is owned by Yamaha. Is there really a difference here? ;)

There actually IS a difference.

[merijn]

Hehe, they have the ribbon alright :P. But eh, Georges. You are right about many things. I will not buy the k2600 within the coming years. Simply because I'm a louzy programmer. I a a total noob on that. So out of my head.