Jordan's Replacement??

[reinaldo13]

just curious.....what happens if...lets say...Jordan gets really sick in the middle of a tour....and he is not able to play one or more shows. I mean....everybody gets sick right? How does Jordan manage to stay healthy during these huge and demanding tours od DT.

I was thinking last night about it (i don't knwo why..jeje) but i wonder if Bert would be able to play in a DT show as a replacement for Jordan in case he is sick or unable to play a show. You know, Bert knows pretty much all the sounds Jordan uses, but i really don't know if he is able to actually play the songs and memorize all the DT set lists.

Cheers to everyone!

the new guy.....Rei

[rifaa]

Is there anything Bert can´t do?? ;-)

Welcome to the forum btw!

[nismael]

Welcome aboard n00b!!! :)

I don't think anybody could replace Jordan quickly, not even Bert :). If it would happen I think they would have to cancel the shows, as it would be the case if any band member injures himself or get sick.

There are sure player out there who can do what Jordan does technically, but I don't think anybody could sight-read his solos. So It would need a lot of preparation to be able to replace him. Even Jordan has to do a lot of preparation before a tour, so imagine a newcomer to DT world...

[maJ estY]

As long as Jordan can be helped with medicine, he'll play. Remember with which things Mike played DT shows (can't remember the names ;) ). If Jordan can really not play (if's he's got a broken arm or something), the show(s) will most likely be cancelled.

[stealth]

most bands just cancel shows if a key member is incapaciated for some reason.. but if they did need a replacement, Derek would work assuming he were willing to play live with DT again (seems like they have their issues sorted out for the most part by now)..

[Nolan]

That reminds of the one time Jordan offered me the opportunity to play instead of him.


They were in amsterdam and he liked the city very much.
But they only would ne there for that night so if I would play he could go out and explore..................


I couldn't do more than give him a sheepish grin.
Man, I couldn't okay a single note. :)


C.

[ImaX]

Some bands use Playback-tapes for the track of the missing member. I can hardly imagine DT using a tape, but to say "no keys today, we take pre-recorded ones" would be the better than cancelling the whole show. Perhaps the keyboard-freaks among the fans should get their money back then :-)

[=DoG_oF_WaR=]

Some bands use Playback-tapes for the track of the missing member. I can hardly imagine DT using a tape, but to say "no keys today, we take pre-recorded ones" would be the better than cancelling the whole show. Perhaps the keyboard-freaks among the fans should get their money back then :-)


mmm no... we dont pay to watch people playing with tapes. Ruins the whole band experience

[Berrido]

mmm no... we dont pay to watch people playing with tapes. Ruins the whole band experience

Man I cant talk very much. It seems like DT will NEVER come to Dominican Republic...

[ImaX]

mmm no... we dont pay to watch people playing with tapes. Ruins the whole band experience

Of course - but for some bands it's a good substitute. And think of all the bands playing 100% playback... (of course they can't be compared to DT, but using playbacks is one method to substitute musicians in some professional bands as far as I know).

[merijn]

Perhaps the keyboard-freaks among the fans should get their money back then :-)
Then suddenly everyone of the fans are keyboard-freaks, see what I mean?;-)

[RudessFan1]

If something unfortunate like that did happen and they needed an immediate replacement, I'm think it's safe to say the first call would probably go to Derek. Just my guess.

[LithoJazzoSphere]

mmm no... we dont pay to watch people playing with tapes. Ruins the whole band experience

I agree. I watch some of these rap and pop artists on TV live, and it's obvious that they're lip-syncing. When I go to see a band live, I want to see them play live, I don't want them to dance around to a pre-recorded mix. For some fans it's obvioulsly more about the visual asthetic than the music.

[bong]

i think derek is the best replacement for jordan. if that thing would happen.. but would derek still want to play with DT? ciao guys!! i'm new here at jr's forum..

[LithoJazzoSphere]

I know Derek could handle all the material up to 1998, but I'm skeptical on Derek's ability to play everything since then. I love his music, but I'm highly suspicious of whether he can match JR technically.

[siebenboy]

just curious.....what happens if...lets say...Jordan gets really sick in the middle of a tour....and he is not able to play one or more shows. I mean....everybody gets sick right? How does Jordan manage to stay healthy during these huge and demanding tours od DT...


Guys, we all know that Jordan's not human, he doesn't get sick or injured! Duh!!! :-)

[Rosie]

Why did Sherinian leave, anyway? I'm not hugely up on DT's history, to be honest. Was he kicked out when he tried to paint the rest of the band red?

[stealth]

^-- They fired Derek after FII because Jordan became available and they felt he was a better fit with the band

I know Derek could handle all the material up to 1998, but I'm skeptical on Derek's ability to play everything since then. I love his music, but I'm highly suspicious of whether he can match JR technically.

I don't have any doubt that Derek could play Jordan's keyboard parts.. Matching Jordan technically is a whole different story, but as far as the stuff Jordan has recorded on SFAM, 6DOIT, and ToT, I've heard Derek play things more complicated before in a live setting.. I don't think he'd be able to write it, as the stuff he writes is a lot more emotive and a bit less technical, but he would be able to play it..

[LithoJazzoSphere]

Part of the reason I say that is because in a recent interview I read with DS, he talked about how back when he was joining, he said DT was the most technical band he'd ever heard. He said that he had to practice a lot to be able to play the parts. We all know that JR set the bar far higher than KM had, which would mean that DS would have had to have ramped up his skills considerably in the past half decade. I haven't heard anything in his work with Planet X or solo that would indicate he's all that much better.

[Rosie]

So was Sherninian a fill in just for Falling Into Infinity..?

Personally, while I much prefer Jordan's playing, FII is the first album I heard from DT and the tones he use still really stick with me, I really liked them and I'd like if Jordan sometimes used something like the more saw-wave based stuff he was doing.

Also, I don't see why Sherinian would have to play an exact recreation of Rudess' work. Most of Rudess' complicated technical achievements lie in his solos, usually his actual riffs aren't too incredibly complex. And I think you should have a kind of creative control over solos, like you shouldn't have to recreate other people's solos if you don't want to, I know Tom Morello from Rage against the Machine rarely bothered playing exactly his *own* solos from his first album, he usually came up with new ones or new versions of them live.

How good a keys player is Bert exactly..?

[Feltronc]

I haven't heard anything in his work with Planet X or solo that would indicate he's all that much better.

i think you need to go get your ears checked, hehe.


seriously, his chops are way better than when he was replaced by jordan on '99, amazingly better.


anyway, IMO i think it's silly to even think of dt asking him to fill in if something happens to jordan. the shows would be automatically cancelled.

[LithoJazzoSphere]

Well, I will go through all of DS's work that I have again, chronologically, and see if my opinion changes. That is, if I can pry Octavarium off my ears within the next few months. :)

[Feltronc]

i think i'll spend pretty much what's left of 2005 listening new dt and px material hehe

[Tigerfolly]

So was Sherninian a fill in just for Falling Into Infinity..?

Personally, while I much prefer Jordan's playing, FII is the first album I heard from DT and the tones he use still really stick with me, I really liked them and I'd like if Jordan sometimes used something like the more saw-wave based stuff he was doing.

Also, I don't see why Sherinian would have to play an exact recreation of Rudess' work. Most of Rudess' complicated technical achievements lie in his solos, usually his actual riffs aren't too incredibly complex. And I think you should have a kind of creative control over solos, like you shouldn't have to recreate other people's solos if you don't want to, I know Tom Morello from Rage against the Machine rarely bothered playing exactly his *own* solos from his first album, he usually came up with new ones or new versions of them live.

How good a keys player is Bert exactly..?


Derek didn't leave, he was actually fired over a conference call. When Kevin left, they looked at a lot of keyboard players, and Jordan actually played a show with them at the Foundations Forum (which has been bootlegged, it's out there in the cosmos). However, at the time Jordan wanted to stay with what he was doing, so DT kept looking and ended up with Derek. On "A Change of Seasons", Derek contributed a little bit, but not nearly as much as he did on "Falling Into Infinity". During this time, the basis of Metropolis Part 2 was sketched out. There are actually a few really, really poor quality copies of this floating around too, but you can see the genesis of many elements of "Scenes From A Memory". While recording the Liquid Tension Experiment albums with Jordan, they asked him again to join Dream Theater, because they felt they worked very well together. When he accepted, Dream Theater had to let Derek go. It wasn't a matter of Derek not being good, or not being good enough. They really liked him and what he brought to the table, but they just clicked with Jordan, and that was the direction they really wanted to go.

The differences between Kevin Moore, Derek Sherinian, and Jordan Rudess are pretty obvious, because they all have very different approaches to the instrument. Kevin liked more abstract sounds, he didn't try and get authentic string sounds, organ sounds, etc.. he used a lot of pads and implied sounds, and his piano sound was very dark and moody Kev's lead tones were very clean and synthesized sounding. Derek used more traditional sounds in Dream Theater like B3s, Rhodes, Mellotrons, and his lead tone was a little more guitaristic.. drenched in distortion and wah. Jordan runs the gamut of keyboarding, but overall you can see a penchant for any instruments that can be layered or orchestrated without stomping all over the mix. His B3 playing is a little more progressive and a little less rock n' roll, and one of the most overlooked elements that Jordan brings to the music is his live techniques of using layers, splits, samples, and a LOT of patch changes to make everything sounds as much like the album as possible, all from one keyboard. Derek and Kevin really didn't split their keyboards up to do two different parts simultaneously.. where they could, they used another keyboard to play a second part, but not nearly to the degree Jordan did. It's not just about recreating solos or very technical parts, it's also about keeping it all together while changing patches, and using the correct layers. When you make a minor mistake while playing live with a B3 patch, it might not be all that evident.. but when you're a half step off with an orchestral patch in the left hand, and a B3 in the right, everyone in the hall notices!

Could Derek pull off a string of shows to fill in for Jordan if the need arises? He's a very capable musician, and he's played for a lot of artists with a very short amount of warning time, so he's obviously capable of coming through in crunch time, but without having heard a note of Octavarium, I can't really say what he'd be able to pull off on tour. But I don't think he has the same mindset of the layered patches and such. I work in a tribute band and do all of the programming and even transcribing of the songs for the other guy, and there's a couple songs that I made splits and layers for, and it's completely over his head.. although he's a much better keyboard player than I am.. it's just a different mindset.

How good is Bert? Bert's pretty damn good. Check out the Neal Morse "Testimony Live" DVD to see Bert in action, ripping up some Spock's Beard and Transatlantic, in addition to all of the great stuff from the Testimony album. And not only that, he's singing a lot too.

[Bert]

You guys know how we have backups of everything, right? Like, we'll have two Oasys keyboards with us on tour, two V-Synth Racks. When we used to use the Kurzweil stuff, we had a spare main K2600 keyboard and a sapre Rack all mounted up and ready to go. We had a spare Triton Rack. We even had a spare Karma. Now, we have a spare Continuum, spares of all the other new instruments, spare bass pedals, spare effects processors, spare stands, spare everything.

The point is: Of course, we just pull out Spare Jordan. He's in a sea containter at the moment, inside case K-3, waiting to gain customs entry to Sweden. He pretty much just hangs out when we're on tour. You know, Jordan hasn't needed to use Spare Jordan in quite a long time. Spare Jordan is actually almost as good as Main Jordan, he's just got a few more scratches, and I need to do a little work on his chassis fan. The ducting got crumpled somehow, probably in shipping, and he's not cooling properly anymore. It's OK, though, because in an emergency, we can always set up fans pointed at his heat-sinks, and keep some Freon on hand.

As far as my own Mad Skillz are concerned, I wish I really played more recently than I do. I get few days to myself recently, and those in which I'm free, I'm mostly cleaning and packing in preparation of moving June 1st. Immediately before, though, I had been playing quite a lot at home, and had begun to feel some nice finger independance happening. It all depends on how active I am in the practice department, whch tends to vary wildly. To fill in for JR, I'd have a really hard time with the leads and the more involved sections, but could play maybe half (?) the show with a fair amount of practice. I could certainly supplement for my shortcomings, however, by my abilities to fart in various timbres and frequency ranges, and doing a cool little high-feedbacky resonance-cracky type whistling thing which would probably sound really cool at 103dB.

I'm now going to take my Mad Skillz and continue cleaning the house with them. Peace, love and lots and lots of sweet crude to you all --

-- B

[Over The Edge]

Ha ha ha ha....


...Bert FARTED!!!


Hoooo hoooo hoooooo!!!




FL
www.franklucas.net

[April]

Isn't the only suitable answer here that no one could replace Jordan???

(And no, I'm not sucking up ;) )