Best FM synth.

[Angelic Layer]

I am looking for a new FM synthesis synth. Which one has the best features?

[Over The Edge]

Yamaha DX-1


FL
www.franklucas.net

[Digilog]

Do you need keys or can I suggest a module? If you’re not looking for something with keys, the DX-200 is pretty sweet. Classic 6 operator FM engine with resonate multi mode filter and a few built in effects (flanger, chorus, distortion, etc.) Not to mention a unison mode to fatten up the sound :twisted: . They were getting blown out for $200 about 6 months or so ago, so you can probably score a pretty sweet deal on one.

[Angelic Layer]

Anyone had experience with FS1R?

[Georges]

Yup, FS1R, played several times with it. It's the BEST FM hardware sound engine around. Moreover, it offers Formant Shaping Synthesis, which is great for vocal-like or vocoder-like sounds. Its only (unfortunately big) downside is its user interface - but that was never the strength of any FM synth, for that kind of synthesis is quite complex. FM7 (or sth like that ?!) is a good software alternative.

[Angelic Layer]

I found out that FS1R is no longer in the market. Is there any other used or new ones with europeon power around?
Is the FM expantion board in Motif sounds as good?

[Over The Edge]

Hmmm. Not too familiar with that piece. Does anyone else know about it.



FL
www.franklucas.net

[Mike Martin]

The FS1R is a very unique product.
I worked for Kurzweil at the time this product released. At the time, my perception and I can guess that public opinion of it was that it was little more than a re-issued DX7 in a rack. Needless to say no one seemed to understand the product and it was discontinued. When the price was dropped, they flew out of the stores and people began to recognize that this product was indeed something different.

Though the FS1R does contain 1152 original DX7 style voices, there is much, much more to this machine.
The FS1R has 16 FM operators (8 voiced and 8 unvoiced) along with different waveform selection for each operator. It also has filters borrowed from the AN1X analog modeling synthezier. In addition it has "formant" synthesis. There is a detailed explanation of the architecture on this site --->
http://www.yamahasynth.com/pro/fs1r/index.html

Needless to say I managed to find an FS1R here at the office when I joined Yamaha. It is hands down one of the most unique sounding products I've ever heard. Keep in mind that programming an FS1R is quite a task. FM synthesis is not easy and the FS1R takes it to a mind boggling level.

The PLG150-DX expansion for the Motif, Motif ES and S90 series products is a traditional 6 operator DX7 style instrument. In addition to providing the "classic" DX sounds this board does explore many areas that you may not typically associate with FM....but it is not the equivalent as an FS1R.

[JackJens]

I keep on lovin' my YAMAHA DX7 !!!

It's a kind of magic !!!

[Over The Edge]

So Mike, is the PLG150-DX like having a DX-7 built right into the ES?


FL
www.franklucas.net

[Mike Martin]

YES.

[Angelic Layer]

No more FS1R... How sad....
Although limited capablities, I'll get an expansion board for my Motif ES if I couldn't get an FS1R.

[Over The Edge]

I'm assuming you get extra voices then with no loss of polyphony?
If so, this is gonna make me feel a lot better that I sold my DX a few years ago. I'm still not happy I sold MY FIRST SYNTH to get a pair of JBL speakers.


FL
www.franklucas.net

[JackJens]

I've bought my DX7 a week ago !!!!

I'm so happy of it !!!!

[Digilog]

I'm assuming you get extra voices then with no loss of polyphony?


That's the way I understand it. I'm sure Mike can tell you for sure or not.

[Mike Martin]

I'm assuming you get extra voices then with no loss of polyphony?


All of the PLG expansions ADD polyphony. The PLG cards literatlly contain an additional engine. In some cases it contains addition ROM samples, while in others the engine is dedicated to a synthesis method (like FM, AN or VL)

[Over The Edge]

Mike,

Is the VL card the equivalent of a VL-1, a VL-7 or is it closer to a VL-70m.
I used to have a VL-7 keyboard and regret getting rid of that (do you see a pattern here with Yamaha keys? Hope to redeem myself with the ES). Anyway, one of the things that I loved about the unit besides the actual sounds were the effects. In my manual it was listed that the FX were 32 bit. Maybe that's why it sounded pristine for its time and even now.
Oh, and does it come with as many sounds as any of the above listed?


FL
www.franklucas.net

[Georges]

As far as I remember from articles I read, VL plug-in is monophonic and comes closer to the VL-70m from point of view features.

Those plug-in boards (be it Korg, Yamaha, etc.) never replace the original synth (neither from point of view features nor polyphonywise) and I guess that's done on purpose, otherwise no one would ever go for a Yahama FS1R, a Yamaha AN1X, a Korg Z1 (if you compare the MOSS board) anymore, etc.. You may also see this strategy in a a means of risk diversification, in case that a product begins to run less well on the market.

That's where the Noah-like synths will be more flexible, for they rely completely on software. While they may not have the complete processing power of a Scope system, they will still be able to make use of all the features. The only theoretical difference will be polyphony between the copy and the original. The disadvantage of Noah-like synths will be the hardware interface (for it needs to allow the control of all synth engines equally well), unless you program entirely on your computer.

However, ain't it amazing how Yamaha is making a hype of its Mofit ES before it's even released.

[Over The Edge]

Georges,

You are right on the money about NOAH being the wave of the future but at this present time, a system like that is such a big processing hog. TH4e sounds you get out of it, however, are so close to the real thing it would be hard to tell the difference.

It'll be interesting to see what kinds of hardware we'll see supporting soft-based systems in let's say the next two years (if the G5 is any indicator i'd say it's gonna be just amazing).

Oh yeah, didn't Mike Martin say that the VL PLG board does truly replace a DX-7?


FL
www.franklucas.net

[Over The Edge]

BTW,

The Motif ES is already out and many stores have already run out of them.


FL
www.franklucas.net

[Mike Martin]

Yes Frank, the PLG-DX150 is identical to the FM that was implemented in the original DX7.

To the best of my knowledge, the PLG-AN150 is just like an AN1X and the PLG-VL150 is just like the VL70m.

All of these plug-in boards (with the exception of VL board) were released after the original keyboard model was discontinued.

Georges, I'm not sure what meant about your hype comment. I certainly hope that you are not refering to my participation on these forums. In regards to the Motif ES, I have only answered questions that have been asked, nothing more. I also answer questions about Kurzweil and other products that I know very well. Though I am from a manufacturer, I have always participated in forums from the perspective of an end user because I have an enthusiasm about MUSIC and technology. As Frank correctly pointed out, the Motif ES is shipping and has been for over a month. The hype as you call it is coming from people that have played it and expressed interest in buying it nothing more.....not a result of me doing anything on this forum.

[Over The Edge]

Mike's right Georges.

If anyone's to blame for all the hype it's probably guys like me and Sol and Togakure who have actually tried the Motif ES and were excited to share just how awesome this board really is...also probably to keep this keyboard forum up to date on the goings-on in the synth world. I'm not a Yamaha rep (long-time Kurzweil user) and neither are the other guys, just gear lust freaks trying to keep in touch with what's cutting edge.

Keep up the great work Mike. You participation in the forum is always valuable and useful.


FL
www.franklucas.net

[Tigerfolly]

Mike's right Georges.

If anyone's to blame for all the hype it's probably guys like me and Sol and Togakure who have actually tried the Motif ES and were excited to share just how awesome this board really is...also probably to keep this keyboard forum up to date on the goings-on in the synth world. I'm not a Yamaha rep (long-time Kurzweil user) and neither are the other guys, just gear lust freaks trying to keep in touch with what's cutting edge.

Keep up the great work Mike. You participation in the forum is always valuable and useful.


FL
www.franklucas.net

Plus, there's already been a hype around the Motif ES, since the Motif came out. In my area (southside of Chicago) the Motif was the greatest thing since sliced bread. Outsold Korg, Roland, and Kurzweil combined at the store I was working at. A following like that will generate it's own hype (much like the upcoming Dream Theater release!), and the Motif really is an amazing piece.. and the Motif ES has really improved on a lot of issues users had with it (but happily lived with).

I wasn't completely won over by the Motif at first, because it had some minor issues that just made me prefer the Korgs over it.. but there's no denying the strengths of the Motif, or Motif ES. By all means, don't believe the hype.. but in this case, the hype is not just marketing fluff, it's the real deal.