Bass Question

[John]

I'm having a little case of gear lust.

I have a Fender Percision bass. I'm starting to consider buying a new bass. I know I'd like the extra low string, but I'm wondering if I really need that sixth string? If I'm going to be laying down bass lines, do I need the sixth string? Is that more of a soloing/chord playing string?

[Luca_Capozzi]

pick a good five string bass :) as a former bass player with 10 year of experience I can suggest you a good Tobias 5 string with active pickups. You can find a used one for less than 1000$ (or around 800 euros). If you want something less expensive, I suggest you a good 5 stringed musicman, ibanes or washburn.

see ya

[Tigerfolly]

I'm having a little case of gear lust.

I have a Fender Percision bass. I'm starting to consider buying a new bass. I know I'd like the extra low string, but I'm wondering if I really need that sixth string? If I'm going to be laying down bass lines, do I need the sixth string? Is that more of a soloing/chord playing string?

Whatever you do, hang on to your Precision. You'll never, ever find that amazing P-Bass tone in another instrument. I'm still kicking myself over the '71 P-Bass I was too stupid to hang on to.

If you really need the low B, make sure you have the budget for it. Nothing is worse than a sloppy B string on a five string bass. There are many ways to ensure that you don't get a sloppy B on a bass, and much of it is common sense. First, don't settle for a 34" scale length if you want a good B string. You -can- get a good B string tone out of a 34" bass, but it takes everything else to be perfect in order to do it, and you need a thicker diameter string to get it. Most bass manufacturers realize this and make their fives in a 35" scale length. Also, make sure the neck and body joint (if it's not a neck-thru-body) are SOLID. Nothing eats up the tone of a low B like a bass with a spongy feel. The best low B's I've ever played have always been on Modulus instruments.. you can -feel- the rumble when it's not plugged in. A good low B should feel nice and tight, but it should still bend easily and not be under -too- much tension. If you can bend a note up a fifth at the third fret, you do not have a good low B string.

As for the high C string on a six string bass, while they are generally used more in soloing and chordal playing, they also come in handy for more positional playing. You've got a lot more notes in your hand without moving up or down the neck, so when you're grooving in the lower five frets of the neck you've got nearly three octaves of notes available. Harmonics are a lot of fun with a high C, and using the open C with lines offers yet another texture. I personally don't have any use for six string basses, but that's just me. Most of my projects these days are studio projects, and the only live project that I play bass in, I also play guitar, guitar synth, keys, percussion and sing in, so I don't have the need for it anywhere in there.

Everything depends on your style and the types of music you're going to be playing. There are very few basses that are good for -everything- out there, and the ones that are good for everything are quite expensive. It really depends on what you're going to be doing with it, how serious you are at playing the bass, and your specific needs from it. If it's something you're going to be playing frequently in a band, onstage, or in the studio, you need to make sure it's going to be easy to play and still get the tone you want. Without knowing your specific needs and budget, a recommendation is truly impossible. If you've got a Guitar Center or something similar near you, take a couple hours out of a day and just go play a bunch of basses. Some great brands to check out are Ernie Ball Music Man, Schecter, Warwick, Stuart Spector Designs, Modulus, Tobias, Lakland, and the higher end Fenders, although in my opinion the only Fender 5 worth the time is the Roscoe Beck model, because the rest always seem to fall short.

If you're not all that serious about playing, or have a limited budget, -then- look into the Ibanez, Peavey, Washburn, Epiphone, and low end Fenders, etc. Stay as far away from brands like Cort, Dean, ESP, Kramer, OLP, Rogue, and Carlo Robelli unless you really just don't care about what you get.

Basically, every manufacturer makes at least one perfect bass for each player. The more information you've got going in, the more likely you are to find a bass that does what you need it to do. For example, every bass I buy MUST have a place for me to rest my thumb close to the bridge in addition to closer to the neck. I play far too many different styles, with different techniques to comprimise for any bass. There can't be too much space between the strings and the body or else I can't slap and pop as fast as I'm capable of. And the bass simply cannot be neck heavy or else I'm never going to play it. I never play my 8 string unless I'm sitting down because it's so damn neck heavy.

Tigerfolly's quick and dirty recommendations?

If you've got the money, spend it. It's not hard to find an outstanding bass for $3,000, but there are still some great basses around $1,000-1,500. Right now the Lakland basses are incredibly impressive to me, but that's just because my bass player has been talking to them about an artist endorsement deal, and we've been checking out all sorts of awesome Lakland basses. Depending on how bright of a tone you want, Music Man and Warwicks are also great, versatile basses. If you're on a budget, check out Schecter and the Yamaha RBX line. If you've only got $300-400 to spend, save your money.

Remember, your mileage may vary. I've been playing bass for 17 years in every style that you can play out with in Chicago (even played a Macedonian wedding once). My main workhorse bass is a four string Steinberger that I've had since the summer of 1990. It's in dire need of a fret job and new electronics, but that bass and I have a telepathic relationship :) If it wasn't for that bass, not only would I have never become a good bass player, but I probably would've never become a professional musician either. I can make that bass do anything I want both physically and tonally, and I've yet to find another bass that comes close to being able to do that, so I'm extra picky :)

Drop us some more information, and we'll all be able to recommend stuff a lot easier for ya.

-TF

[LithoJazzoSphere]

If you're going to be playing bass regularly, you might find use for the 6th string. But if you're just going to be a part time player and just lay down some lines here and there, I'd save money, cause most likely you won't use that string at all, or if you do it'll just be for a few notes here and there. The main use of six string basses is soloing and parts like Myung's or Les Claypool's.

[John]

Thank you very much for your time spent replying. I'm a keyboard player that plays around with the bass from time to time. I'm doing some Jazz recording projects and would like to lay down my bass lines with a bass guitar instead of my keyboard. My current project is a song called Sad Samba (aka Make Me a Memory) by Grover Washington. At the moment my bass track is a sequenced part I layed down on my Kurz. I'd like to record a nice bass track with a five string. The song is really going to feature a local trumpet player.

When I get ready to purchase I can see myself putting out about $800-$1000 for a decent used bass. Maybe a little more if I can start gigging a little more frequently.

I'd like something moderately versitle. I know how to slap, thump and pluck, but don't do much of that except to entertain myself. Most of my playing would be geared towards a fairly good variety of jazz. I think I'd like something that records nicely, has good sustain, feels good (I'll need to hit the music stores), and is not ultra-bright (can't the brightness be controled by the type of strings I use?)

Thanks again,

John.

[Tigerfolly]

Thank you very much for your time spent replying. I'm a keyboard player that plays around with the bass from time to time. I'm doing some Jazz recording projects and would like to lay down my bass lines with a bass guitar instead of my keyboard. My current project is a song called Sad Samba (aka Make Me a Memory) by Grover Washington. At the moment my bass track is a sequenced part I layed down on my Kurz. I'd like to record a nice bass track with a five string. The song is really going to feature a local trumpet player.

When I get ready to purchase I can see myself putting out about $800-$1000 for a decent used bass. Maybe a little more if I can start gigging a little more frequently.

I'd like something moderately versitle. I know how to slap, thump and pluck, but don't do much of that except to entertain myself. Most of my playing would be geared towards a fairly good variety of jazz. I think I'd like something that records nicely, has good sustain, feels good (I'll need to hit the music stores), and is not ultra-bright (can't the brightness be controled by the type of strings I use?)

Thanks again,

John.

You -can- control brightness by the type of strings that you use, but that's generally not the best way to do it because it severely limits you. You can use flatwound strings instead of roundwound strings to smooth out the sound a little bit, but there's always a tradeoff. First of all, it's harder to find five and six string sets of flatwounds than it is to find roundwounds. Second, flatwounds are under noticably higher tension than roundwound strings, and you've got to ensure your bass is set up properly for them or else the action will be very high, the neck will be quite bowed and the bass will be very difficult to play. Third, once you put flatwounds on your bass, you simply can't get a roundwound sound out of them.. which may not be a problem, but if you've got roundwounds, you can get a flatwound sound out of them by either letting them get dead, muting the strings a bit with a piece of foam under the bridge or with your picking technique, or simply using your onboard tone pot to pull the highs out of the signal.

I prefer roundwounds, because they're much more versatile. Many people use flatwounds because you can't hear the screeching of your hands sliding on the strings.. I prefer using clean technique :) There are other styles like halfrounds, and strings made of different materials to change their tonal properties, but once you find the set of strings that works best for you, everything falls into place. I personally use D'Addario roundwounds, .045 - .065 - .080 - .100 - .130 (but I prefer a .120 or .125 B, when I use a 5). My theory is to get as clean of a signal as I can out of the instrument and make the amp do all of the work, so I don't use any onboard tone or EQ adjustments.

If you're doing a lot of jazz, you may want to look into a fretless as well, for that upright or Jaco (or the scores of Jaco clones) style of tone. It takes a bit more practice to get your intonation straight, but the tone is so gorgeous, it's worth the work.

After snooping at Musician's Friend real quick, here's a good selection of basses to get you started within that price range you mentioned:

Lakland Skyline 55-01:
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=bass/search/detail/base_pid/517702/
Fender Deluxe Active Jazz V:
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=bass/search/detail/base_pid/511596/
Fender Standard Jazz V:
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=bass/search/detail/base_pid/510258/
SSD Spector Legend 5:
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=bass/search/detail/base_pid/517423/
Schecter Stilletto Elite 5:
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=bass/search/detail/base_pid/513052/
G&L L2500 Plus:
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=bass/search/detail/base_pid/511120/
Conklin GT5:
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=bass/search/detail/base_pid/512702/

Enjoy!
-TF

[John]

As far as appearance is concerned I like the Schecter and Conklin.

Would I be better off getting a good deal on a used bass? Here's one that looked interesting:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=3777644408&ssPage Name=STRK:MEWA:IT

[Tigerfolly]

As far as appearance is concerned I like the Schecter and Conklin.

Would I be better off getting a good deal on a used bass? Here's one that looked interesting:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=3777644408&ssPage Name=STRK:MEWA:IT

Absolutely. Although that bass is already sold with a Buy It Now, Tobias basses are really good, solid basses with great tone. Even after Gibson took over the company, they still made pretty good instruments. The early pre-Gibson Tobias basses were VERY good. You can also check out http://www.musicyo.com for some lower end Tobias basses for sale.

http://www.musicyo.com/brandland.asp?dept_id=12

-TF

[lighthouse]

I also Think that John Myung used a Tobias before he picked the Yamaha....very good looking instruments btw!


Juan Pablo

[Omega Monkey]

Carvin also makes some nice fretted and fretless basses 4-6 string with all kinds of options as far as electronics, woods, finishes, etc... And very reasonably priced as well. They are also one of the few companies (that I've seen anyway) that offer piezos on their basses (which is awesome).

[Tigerfolly]

Carvin also makes some nice fretted and fretless basses 4-6 string with all kinds of options as far as electronics, woods, finishes, etc... And very reasonably priced as well. They are also one of the few companies (that I've seen anyway) that offer piezos on their basses (which is awesome).

Actually, quite a few companies put piezos on their basses. You have to be careful though, because they generally cut corners with them. Unless it's a good (read: expensive) piezo system, it's going to be very clicky, noisy, and not very good in tone. An Ibanez that I had came with piezos and a single magnetic soapbar pickup.. the soapbar sounded like absolute garbage, and while the piezos helped clean up the sound, they were so noisy and transmitted so much string noise that by the time you got the tone right, the additional noise was far too present.

Carvin's aren't bad, but they're nothing really special either. With just about any bass under a thousand dollars, the electronics really hold them back.

[Omega Monkey]

Carvin's aren't bad, but they're nothing really special either.

I disagree. Its hard to argue with a pretty much completely customized (within reason) well made bass that plays and sounds great for the prices you can get a Carvin at, and I havent really seen any other companies that can really compete in that price range. Anyway, Carvin uses Fishman piezos which are pretty much the standard (the Parker Fly also uses Fishman piezos).

Yes, if you pay $3500 you can probably get something amazing, but you could also severely overpay for something that really doesnt outperform what you could get for a 1/3 of that (or at least not by much).