I'm Worried

[Rudess]

I'm worried,

I'm worried that people are confused about the way they listen and understand music and musicians.
Music is expression. A persons intention by creating music is an individuals way of sharing art and therefore allowing a look deep inside
the soul. The soul of the performer as well as the listener.
There are so many beautiful musicians in the world that emminate pure music in there lives, that the idea of competition
between them is upsetting. How can one true musician be "better" then the other. By "true" I mean a musician that has the technique (uh oh, the technique word) to produce music that flows freely from his heart and mind through the fingers (or computer/mechanism ) and into reality.

It's about to be a New Year and a good time to become very aware of what music is all about. Did any of you ever get to see Michael Hedges when he was alive? The man was pure music from head to toe.

We should all do what we can to promote an environment where people are free to express themselves for who they are.
People who desire to become musicians need to become open and hear the world around them. Step outside of the box and breathe it in.

To all my friends, listeners and students. When you listen to, or play music, be conscious of what the message is in the music. What are you trying to say when you play the piano/guitar etc? What is the musician
really sharing in their music. See if you can get in touch with the human being behind the music.

Be a musician. Be a poet. Be an artist. Be yourself. Improvise more.
Flow like water.

Rock on.

Jordan
2004-2005

[Ael]

So true. Thanks Jordan.

[Enigma™]

Nice.

I don't know if I agree with EVERYTHING there, however, there are some very wise words in there as well.

The thing that strikes me most: You don't have to have amazing technique to have amazing music ;)

[Ael]

I think the Wizard is right ...

I want to say that the whole thread on Pinella's cd is worth it...if it's good, it's good, if it's better than RoT in your eyes, then it is...honestly, I've listened to everything put out by Jordan and I can say it's very interesting music, very advanced, and very tight from a compositional standpoint. Just listen a little before judging.

I think people in general to compare musicians are stupid. Everyone has strenghts and weaknesses, we all know them, we all follow blindlessy the paths of those we admire...I think a thread like that is unncessary and stuipd, and I agree with Rudess. Open yourself up.

Music is about music and the reflection of life around you - not about constant competition.

Just my 2 cents.

[Karmafied]

Many thanks Jordan, youre a great inspiration for many of the forum members (like me) ...it is sad to see as much people continue thinking about music like a race or a competition and don´t understand that the tecnique it´s only a simple tool for express yourself...but well maybe thats the reason that justify the existence of all this skilled,fasted and overrated keyboard-shreders that sometimes do not have anything to say to us or they are even a bad one talks back of another musicians that already have developed their own language.
It´s a new year and it´s time to reframe what we looked into the music, if
if we want to listen only superfastest scales and technique pirotecnia without soul like soo many bands and players around the world, or if we need some deep music with no limits, no technique limits, no stetic limits.

Finally it is the eternal fight between the egocentrism and the true art,
This art that can touch our hearts, our soul, our intelect...i really prefer the art side.

HAPPY NEW YEAR Mr. Rudes and many thanks for all the music and inspiration : )

and Happy new year for all the forum members, its really nice to chat with all of you.

[Feltronc]

there are several musicians that have made memorable songs, songs that eventually marked me in some time of my life. i felt identified with the melodies and/or the lyrics, and a big part of the songs aren't very technical, they go beyond that. i think that young players these days are only trying to play fast and technical, but the songs are completely empty, without meaning, with nothing to transmit to the listener. i think it's time for us to start worrying about the things that go beyond the performing, technique and speed.

in my case, that was what in first place made me like so much Dream Theater; because of their capability of mixing the supreme technique they have with how could they make the listener travel through all these emotions along their songs, or even their whole albums. when you finish listening a whole album from them, you feel like if you had finished an amazing journey of emotions, and you loved it so much, that you wanna go through that journey as much times as you can...

[Isaari]

In a way all arts are interconnected in more ways than one.

For me personally
Classical music, poetry, nature, and photography in that order
I try to be informed on architecture, and classical paintings.

Picasso said that after Monet there will be nobody.
By looking at the waterlilies you can increase the chance to have
good solid inspiration

[Enc3f4L0]

Amen. Agree with most, if not all of what Jordan said, or typed, whatever.

I don't think the Pinnella topic title was all that serious but still, there ARE many out there who think that music = sports.

This topic might be useful to inspire some mind-changing in 2005.

Happy new year Jordan and fellow forumers...

BTW: I didn't even listen to Rythm of Time yet... I can't find it in stores here where I live...

[Michael B. - The Mirror]

inspiring words Jordan!

[Eric Zane]

I read about Mr. (och SIR as I should call him) Hedges this morning. Sad.
But your words are warming. Thanks a lot!

[Taurus]

you gotta ask yourself when you made a song a listen to the recording of it:
- am i listening at it like 'omf.. forward to 3:48s!!!! come on push the button!, my fokkin uberl33t solo!! omfg cant wait!!! Ah there it is w00t! hear that, ok the rest of the song is kind of a prelude to the whole solo but what the heck. Song finished. Btw, did you like my solo? TELL ME YOU DIG IT!! :D'

orrrrr (the artistic side of it)

- let me take you on a travel, listener. Every second is part of the part of tension and release. Go like 'wow' when you press certain supereasy minor and major legato chords, but in that way it sounds so refreshing and magical. Name the title of the song to something that the music seems to express. Can you feel what I felt when I composed this song, listener? Etc.

Just my opinion. I'd rule out any competition unless you're doing it for fun for a next beerround.

[StandBuilder]

Be an artist. Be yourself. Improvise more.

:shock: :shock: :shock:

What do you think, I'm doing right now, dear keyboardist...
I'm surrounded by tons of paper and steel, trying to be myself and more
above that, an artist.... :mrgreen::mrgreen::mrgreen:

We will talk and rotate more in 2005.

Stainlessly,

The StandBuilder....

[ChrisMcCoy]

I'm worried too.
I feel like the importance of music in our society has lessened in the recent years. But I still believe it's just as important now as it has been in the past.
When I was a child growing up in the 70's, music in our schools was integral. Today it's future is questionalble. Politicians have made it harder for music to be important. Budgets are being cut, and Local Live music is slowly dying in our region with smoking bans, new legislation, and general reduction of the critical emphasis we need to place on the arts.
In the Washington D.C. metropolitan area (my local music scene),
I used to perform in bars that were known as "showcase clubs". These places had big stages, and local bands used to compete very hard to get gigs and keep followings selling out the venues and buying up the tickets. Most of the bands were LOCAL and UNSIGNED. Can you imagine going to ticketmaster to buy a ticket to a local gig ? That's how it used to be here. Most of the showcase clubs are gone. Replaced by Dance Clubs with DJ's. The live bands are playing in Pool Halls, and basically are the background music for pool and beer drinking. Bands used to play 6 nights a week in this area. Now, most are lucky to get 2 gigs a month. Sad but true.
I also notice the new music artists on TV today following the hollywood trendiness that the movies came from...it's seen as "sexy", and a Visual Perfect Image seems to be a pre-requisite for a Grammy or an American Music Award, or any of the big award shows...in many of those who get them... Before we had MTV, it didn't make a difference what a musician "looked like" visually. Before there were Music Videos, Most people Never even knew what their favorite radio artists looked like until the first time they saw them in concert. This was the 70's. Could you imagine Foreigner, or REO Speedwagon, or Kansas trying to get signed to a record deal today ? I'd still pay top dollar to see any of those groups, because I love the music, and really I could care less what they look like.
The Buggles wrote a song in the early 80's called "Video Killed the Radio Star", and it's true. Ironically there was an MTV Video that went with the song, so I guess the joke is on us. (The keyboard player was none other than Geoff Downes of Asia).

Seriously, The truth is that music is an art, and a beautiful one at that.
I hope it will continue to be an art that is appreciated for more it's real beauty rather than videos on TV or posters on the wall. Music is Music, nothing more, nothing less...and that's how it really should be.

My final thought on this....
The reason I got into music 31 years ago at the tender age of 6, was that I loved to sing and play the piano, and then the trombone, and then later the musical love of my life, synthesizers and electronic keyboards, or as some have termed "romplers"...and I love to perform in front of people because I still believe that they want to really hear music, not just see it on MTV.
I still play and record music today because it's what I love to do. I just hope that future musicians will continue to persue music for music and because they have a passion for music, playing it, writing it, recording it and performing it. I hope the local music scenes will someday reintroduce the showcase clubs in my area. That's how the big artists of yesteryear got started. Maybe the same will be true for the big artists of the future. I can only hope.
Happy New Year, and Jordan thanks for giving us a place to talk about music !
Let's keep music flowing !
Best Regards,
Chris

[rlainhart]

"Competitions are for horses, not artists."

Béla Bartok, Saturday Review, 25 August 1962

[Taurus]

good one

[Liquid Shadow]

Nice quote. 8)


And Chris...I totally agree. It's so saddening that people like Ashlee Simpson get record deals and wind up in the top 40. What did she do? She's Jessica's sister. What did Jessica do? She was on TV. Granted, Jessica Simpson has a decent voice (but Ashlee...well...we all know :lol:), but how her and her sister have risen to where they are now in today's popular "music" scene is rather scary for those of us who spend our time practicing to improve skills and spend endless amounts of time trying to create the best music possible. After all the work that real musicians put into their art these days, they will never get anywhere with it when compared with the fame and fortune earned by those in the top 40 charts. Of course, music is not about fame or making money, but when you have people in the same business getting that much more for doing FAR less work and knowing so much less about their work, then you know things are screwed up. If someone had a degree in something related to computer programming, you'd expect that they would make more than someone else in the same field who was straight out of high school and only knew how to turn a computer on. Unfortunately, people don't expect the same out of music anymore.

[Feltronc]

that's so damn true :evil:

[keys76]

Wow Jordan, very inspiring post of yours. Thank you.

Jeroen

[lighthouse]

Yeah, I think the problem is that most people looks at music as a commercial opportunity, it´s been globalized, and it goes along with the desire to "live fast" of the new societies, so whatever helps you be the most popular, or beautiful or whatever at an specific momment is the thing to do, or to wear, or to listen to.....Music (speaking in general society terms) has lost the label of an "Art Form", it´s just something that´s there and you buy it.
Speaking about the competitivity between musicians, I think it´s all part of the same problem, you have to be better than someone to be bought by society, and nowadays the human race it´s more on the side of individualism, and has lost the concept of team work, which is far more important than personal success, cause it helps us to develope ourselves as human beings, with strong bonds and relationships that can rejoice on the works of our fellow humans and be happy for what they´ve achieved....

I hope I could make my point clear in english.....I know that in spanish I said something that mkes sense :wink:


Juan Pablo

[Irish]

That's a really good point there. Music has become totally commercialized, and I don't necessarily find it to be for the better.

[Deceit]

Stop Simpson, hail JAMESON, buy a Jackson!
Deceit.

[merijn]

Good to mention it, many forget. But I want to forget it too when offered a HUGE amount of money.

[Margaret]

I'm worried,

I'm worried that people are confused about the way they listen and understand music and musicians.
Music is expression. A persons intention by creating music is an individuals way of sharing art and therefore allowing a look deep inside
the soul. The soul of the performer as well as the listener.
There are so many beautiful musicians in the world that emminate pure music in there lives, that the idea of competition
between them is upsetting. How can one true musician be "better" then the other. By "true" I mean a musician that has the technique (uh oh, the technique word) to produce music that flows freely from his heart and mind through the fingers (or computer/mechanism ) and into reality.

It's about to be a New Year and a good time to become very aware of what music is all about. Did any of you ever get to see Michael Hedges when he was alive? The man was pure music from head to toe.

We should all do what we can to promote an environment where people are free to express themselves for who they are.
People who desire to become musicians need to become open and hear the world around them. Step outside of the box and breathe it in.

To all my friends, listeners and students. When you listen to, or play music, be conscious of what the message is in the music. What are you trying to say when you play the piano/guitar etc? What is the musician
really sharing in their music. See if you can get in touch with the human being behind the music.

Be a musician. Be a poet. Be an artist. Be yourself. Improvise more.
Flow like water.

Rock on.

Jordan
2004-2005

Thank you for these beautiful words! It sure is thought provoking to me and it's very good to become aware of it once again. I felt a lot of recognition when you said that one should try to understand the story behind the music. What is a certain part trying to say? How should be performed and understood?

Those words of yours immediately made think about my flute teacher when I was studying 'Orpheus and Euridice' She was telling the story again eventhough I was familiar with it, but she spoke very animated, I could see how much she was into it, visualising the story in her head and that really touched me. Eventhough it might sound like a cliché I really think that getting familiar with the story and thus the interpretation of the music helps me putting my emotion into my playing, yet playing it as close as I get to how it should be played without being a 'copymachine' if you get my drift. So basically what I'm trying to say is that I am always interested in background information about the music that I play. Improvising isn't my best feature yet, but what I do instead is playing along with DT's music or other music that I love by ear! And then, when I figured out how the music was written, what it's trying to tell me I slowly start improvising and put a lot of myself in it. Vacant is a perfect song for me to improvise to. I love the sphere I love the message inside. It's really touching...

And then the part where you say 'Try to get in touch with the person behind the music' I know that I can get in touch with myself when I play, but also when it comes to other people's music, I always wanna know more about them personally in order to really understand what they're sharing with me and to give personal meaning to the songs I hear. I remember being very touched by Take Away My Pain as I knew it was about the loss of John's father. At that time I had also just lost my causin who was 21 years old... It was like I could totally get lost in the emotion of that song, the lyrics... and really understand what it must've been like for John to loose a loved one. Just to give a good example.
Thanks again Jordan, wish I could talk to you in person about these subjects. Really cool and diverse since music is very personal and emotional.

Love,
Margaret.

[MetalliJedi]

*MJ applauds and bows to The Wizard*

You know Jordan? that is the way I think I hate when people compare two musicians or bands or say "X" is better than or smokes "Y" .

Sometimes I feel like a freak... that I´m one of the very few people of the planet that listens to music for what it is, that wants to connect with it... not thinking about if someone thinks or feels that the music I listen to is crap or not.

I have a term fo people like that "music explorer" I´m a music explorer. Music is capital in my life, like writing and film... those three things are the "pilars" of my days.

I hate it when someone wants to impose her/his views... I want to form my own opinion.

The day when people stop wanting everybody to think or feel their way and stop labeling stuff "for women" "for men", "good" "bad" the world will be a better place.

[maestrophillips]

I understand what you are saying Mr. Rudess. Thank you for sharing your heart.

Peace. 8)

[Mendelssohn]

Jordan: You got the wrong idea.

Peace

[EdKeys]

how can he be wrong for expressing his ideas and feelings towards music??

[deviatedwolf625]

Hey, I totally agree, and I'm now trying to go back and redo everything I done, take every piece of insane shreddery, and ask "Well, what does this add to the music?" And if it doesn't add anything, iksnay it.

Once I can get my keyboard to work, my compositions will flow from my fingers much smoother.

[Nolan]

True words for sure.......

Last year in Italy we talked about different musicians.
I do recall that you find it important that people know the technique and theory behind the music.

Can someone only be pure if he knows what he's doing
or is this also possible with someone who has no clue about notes or chords but still produces music (and probably from his heart)

I hope this is clear


Coen

[glissandro baby]

thanks again for the inspiration Jordan!!!

[Dylan Burnett]

Thank you Rudess, beautiful.

[mesavox]

I've really noticed this a lot more lately too. For a couple of years I only read the equipoment areas of this, and JP's forum. I wasn't really keeping up with the musicle attitudes of the people. The last few months I've decided that I've isolated myself too much from the attitudes of others.

One of the catalysts that sparked my marked increase in awareness in these attitudes was posting the clip of Katie playing violin. To my great surprise, MP's forum had nice things to say, and this forum talked about the equipment, and JP's forum, for the most part just slammed her. "It's not that great." or "...her stupid walk..." or something else about how mediocre it was. I can't help but think about the fact that She learned quite a bit of that from Mark Wood's fiddle camp. I've noticed that for a well known to do something, it's often ok, but a 14 year old girl, who is playing gigs, and booking gigs and managing gigs all over Delaware, she is mediocre and has bad stage presense. The funnier thing still is that many of the comments were made by people who can play circles around me on guitar, yet never leave thier bedroom in thier attempts to master Paganninni, or whatever, and post clips on JPforum.com about how amazing they are. Yet, that's as far as it goes for so many of them.

Now, I realize not all of them. And, not even all of the naysayers. But, I noticed that most of the people on JPforum.com that had positive things to say, have cds out(leval of production is irrelevant to effort), are teachers of many, and otherwise are trying something. I also can't help but wonder how many would think Katie rocked if they were aware that Mark Wood, and JR had both complimented her highly. I have a feeling there would be some stuttered attempts at "taking back" thier negative comments. I'll leave them to discover for themselves that the masters out there, who are far better technically than most of us could ever dream to be, are so often less pridefull and judgemental than we are.

I had expected JP people to like it, and people here to analyze it to death lol, and MP people to pick it apart in much sarcasm. This forum's reaction was different, but still positive, Mike's was way different and very positive, and JP's board was different and way negative. Keeping in mind of course that I"m talking about the general conscensus of one thread and it's participants, not the entire population of any of the forums mentioned.

I am in the process of getting audition tapes made for various studio work and even one out to something much bigger than I ever thought I would be seriously trying out for. I've noticed quite a shift in my reaction to things. The guys who can play faster than anyone, and play the most difficult things immaginable, used to intimidate me. I have now found that the ones that matter, those that I look up to, are so often willing to help and encourage, and the others that don't matter... well, what are they doing more than I am anyway really? lol.

I think the point, and how it relates to Jordans very applicable(to my life) thought is... if we spent as much time playing music with others, for others, and listening to others play music with us, and for us as we do criticising and talking about it, we might all be as technically proficient as Jordan anyway. lol. Or, rather, we might be creating something meaningful, if only for a while.

[nismael]

I'm worried too!!! I just bought a copy of Rhythm of Time and it won't play on my computer.... The only thing I can get from my cd is Jordan Interview on the making of ROT and the 2 tracks where he sings. I can't see any audio tracks on my cd....

What am I doing wrong?

[Luca_Capozzi]

usually your pc opens Data track. Run your favorite CD Player software and you can listen to RoT.

see ya

[nismael]

sorry, but its not the first CD I buy and try to play on my computer, but its the first one that doesn't work... Winamp or Media Player won't play it... do you see the track listing when you browse your cd?

I also have this mention on my CD written in Orange : "For Bonus Audio and Video, insert this CD into your computer", but the cd cover features the track listing with the duration, etc., as would do a normal CD. I just dunno what's going on.

[Luca_Capozzi]

I simply right-click my cd drive and, then, select "Play with". I usually use Power DVD.. so my choose is "Play with Power DVD".

see ya

[nismael]

I have power DVD but Im out of luck... it won't play ROT. I start to think that there is a fuck with my CD...

have you read my statement on the Orange stuff written on my CD? is it normal?

Can somebody please list me the files that he has on his CD?

Thx for your help!

[Spacehog]

My CD says the same stuff... and shows up as a data CD in my computer. So I play it in an audio CD player and it works fine :) There is, I'm sure, a way of playing the audio off the disk (in fact, I seem to recall managing to get it to work in dbPowerAmp) but I have all my CD's backed up to 256kb/s MP3s on my computer for listening to up here, and keep my CD's downstairs where I listen to them on my stereo.

Regarding the other comments in this thread, when I was a kid, I thought like a kid. At 14 I wanted to be the best guitarist in the world. At 17 I wanted to be the best bassist in the world. At 21 I realised I was never going to be either, so I set my heart to making the music *I* wanted to make. I've built myself up, technically, to a level where I can play what I want, pretty much, and I can record whole albums without involving anybody else. Whether or not I choose to bring other people in is irrellevant. I'm doing my thing, painting my picture, writing my story, singing my song. And that's what I see is important.

It's the same thing with influences... too many people focus on one person (be it Jordan, Rick Wakeman, Steve Vai, Lars Ulrich, whoever) and aspire to be that person. But guess what? IT'S NOT GONNA HAPPEN! Listen to everything, soak in everything. The more restrictive you are with your music listening, the less you will grow as a musician. The more negative you are towards other musicians and other styles of music, the less you will grow. The more anal you are about sitting in your room practicing in minutae instead of getting out there, getting sweaty and tired, playing in front of (and with) other people, the less you will grow.

Music is one of the most accessible art forms we have available to us. With the internet, we have the ability of reaching out to millions of people. But we as musicians have as much responsibility, if not more so, as the general listening public to appreciate all styles of music. Otherwise, why should anyone listen to us and the music we play? We need to open our eyes, our ears and our minds to new things. Just because somewhere is playing hiphop or reggae or funk or whatever, it's still music, and there are still things to be learnt from it.

It's no use bemoaning the state of the music business. Moaning won't do anything to improve things! We should be going out and asking bar and club owners whether they've got any plans to have live band nights. Encourage our friends to do the same. Keep up the pressure, and things will improve, club owners will see there is a demand for live band nights and will start to have them more often. I was once in a band that was one of the main live music attractions in our town. When we all left to go to college, the number of live music venues halved in about three months. Why? Because while we were going around hassling club owners for gigs, and taking out new bands as support acts, the other musicians in the area were too self-absorbed and just let all their possible outlets dry up.

I love progressive music. I really do. But it's on a level that a lot of people simply won't appreciate. Those less passionate about music than ourselves, want something to listen to in the background, something that is a distraction but doesn't require absolute concentration. Prog doesn't offer that. Even the hard rock with prog-tinges that comes around every now and then isn't quite there, but it is more approachable. Concentrate on the musicality, not the techniques, and it'll stop prog being such a clique and start opening other people up to it. We owe it to ourselves!

At which point I'll stop rambling...

Martin

[Junnart83]

I'm 100% agreeing.

It reminds me of Schopenauer's philosophy...

In fact, when I'm listening to music I always feel like I'm drifted towards a kind of 4th dimension...you know...it's a little tough to explain...but I assure it's true!
(I think I already talked about it previously...)

[organmeister]

Competition can be a good thing. Say, if someone organizes a battle of the bands and encourages groups to enter. If that gets someone to get out there and play their music, who normally would not; then it would be good.
Competition can provide a venue which would not otherwise be there.
We need more venues for musicians who are truly trying to improve.
There are way too many places musical mediocrety is sold by sex.
Competition can be a good motivational tool. The piano competitions I have seen my son involved in have honored all the participants. When the awards are given out everyone gets applause and a keepsake. Everyone's name who participates appears on the back of the T-Shirt. Last year over 600 names. Competition has motivated the musician to really spend time with a piece and get down into all the details of expression in it. Also, competition has motivated musicians or students of music to spend the time required to play a piece accurately and from memory. Playing from memory can definately help with expression of the message. Finally, the recognition that comes from participating, placing or winning is a stong motivational force especially for those who have not totally internalized their motivation to play.
Competitions that are designed poorly can be a bad thing. I am not going to discuss how many people have been discouraged. Also just comparing and judging musicians as a topic is lame. Although, it has sometimes encouraged me to listen to groups I never would have bothered to, to see if I agree with someone who is saying "their group is awesome". Comparing for differentiation can be good.

All of creation is a kind of music. Read the beginning of the Silmarillion by J. R. R. Tolkien. God's creation is totally infused with music. Its not just birds and insects, either. The planets, stars, and other extraterrestrial objects emit frequencies in bandwidths we cannot hear. Music is celestial. The creation has incredible bandwidth and the universe is full of music. Tap into that.

Types of musicians are incredibly diverse as well. Folk and Country to Classical and avant-garde. Music expresses a part of our minds that is not communicable in words or other forms of expression. However, I think we all naturally try to tell good music from bad music. IMHO the good music is what moves us individually and collectively to be more energetic, creative, joyful, kind, loving, caring with other humans and less selfish, judgemental and destructive. I think Heavy Metal can be just as expressive as a Brahms Symphony in making people experience noble emotions, too. These are types of emotions that motivate us to act better. One can get a lot of joy listening to a powerful rhythm from the drums and bass that involves your whole body.
It can enliven you. Some music is so angry that it can be cathartic. Also, I delight in some extremely fast riff that seems to fit perfectly on the top and goes interestingly in some direction I recognize or that feels right. It makes me want to try it.

I agree with the contributors to this thread who said that music does not have to be complicated or require complete mastery of the technique of the instrument in order to be expressive. To put down a simple beautiful melody with a simple harmony or to organize some a rhythm that speaks to the mind or body or both does not require a degree from Julliard and six hours a day of practice. I think there is a showing off component of musical expression that is great. (some would call it competition.)

I think it is good to improvise. You will be speaking through the technique you have acquired. I have not generally been disciplined enough with my improvisation to capture the good parts and organize them succinctly into a piece. It takes discipline to create and capture good music and to express yourself well.

I like the ideas that people expressed about getting out there. You learn so much and can improve so much by forcing yourself into a performance situation. It can hurt also. Hopefully it will make you want to try harder for the next time and not dishearten you.

We need more live music!!! I am worried about whether all these machines that can make music will allow more mediocrity to get out there. There are churches that have to use music boxes for accompaniment. When you go into a music store there are people playing with that equipment that have no reason to be expressing themselves musically. I am worried about people not supporting symphonies and live music in general. The classical composers have creatively inspired so many musicians in all the other genres. We cannot let our cultural roots end up inside music machines. People need to go hear live music and participate in making live music. People need to listen to Bach and play his music as well as the other masters as well as the progressive rock greats.

Well if you made it through this long post. Congratulations.
I like the way Jordan's threads inspire me to think about music.

[Liquid Shadow]

This was half a year old. Why the hell did it just get bumped?

[LithoJazzoSphere]

We had a thread (which I believe you started) about bumping old threads just a few weeks ago. I'm not sure if I followed it after my inital post, but essentially there seems to be two camps, where one believes that once a topic has not been responded to in a week, that particular thread should never be replied to again, and another camp, which believes that posting in old threads is a great way to continue an old discussion with new insight. I tend to favor the latter view.

[organmeister]

It is not bumped to bother you LiquidShadow.

Any worthwhile topic started by Jordan Rudess is worth talking about. Why do you think that because a topic is old it is not worth discussing? Who cares if a topic gets "bumped"? Why would you think that every one has been on this site reading every post for the last 3 years? I was on the previous web site. Who made you the policeman of what can be written about? And about 100 hundred other responses. I guess you do not want any one new to come into the forum. That is pretty selfish. I have enjoyed some of your posts but this concern about old topics coming up is overblown. In fact I am looking for worthwhile topics not 6 weeks of drivel about pictures. Talk about the philosophy of music. What is artistic? What is meaningful to the world?
Talk about how to play your instrument or write your compositions. Or why would you even write a composition. Plus it is just a forum anyway.

[Liquid Shadow]

If going back to the 234th page of the forum's history and single-handely trying to continue with discussions that have not been active for half a year is your thing, then there's nothing I can do to stop you.

[Farren]

Whiners like yourself are the reason I quit coming here. Who the fuck cares if someone wants to bump a thread started by Jordan himself for others to read?

[organmeister]

If going back to the 234th page of the forum's history and single-handely trying to continue with discussions that have not been active for half a year is your thing, then there's nothing I can do to stop you. Ryan

First of all I went back to the fifth page not the 234th. Plus I added a different viewpoint of competition. Most importantly, I doubt if the creators of this forum just want it to be some kind of stream of consciousness. I think there are deeper reasons that Jordan raises the topics he does. Especially after meeting him in Atlanta at Gigantour last Friday Aug 5, 2005.

New people coming to this forum are going to naturally look for good Threads whether they were started by Jordan or others. So I do not feel like I am adding ideas to a single handed conversation whatever that is.

I will tell one thing I learned after meeting Dream Theater friday. The greatest artists seem to be the most decent and gracious human beings.

I am glad you aren't going to try and stop me from posting my opinions. Because this forum is about exactly the opposite thing. Encouraging people who love music. I have seen that you have gotten a lot of encouragement from a lot of people in the threads you have been involved in.

[Liquid Shadow]

Whiners like yourself are the reason I quit coming here. Who the fuck cares if someone wants to bump a thread started by Jordan himself for others to read?

The forum has seen a steep decline in quality since your intuitive posts stopped falling from the sky, like gifts from God himself. It's unfortunate, really, to know that I'm the reason that such a knowledgable and helpful individual like you has decided to stop coming to an internet forum.

The drama is just killing me. Please, come back.


Who cares if people bump threads? I dunno...who cares that people care that people bump threads? Shall we continue the circle of questions with an obviously implied "you suck," or should we just bust out the Mozart and do a waltz?

In any case, I already said that it's not like I can do a damned thing about it, I just find it quite odd that we're seeing the return of many very old threads...and none of them have picked up again after they got bumped, so I'm not seeing a huge point to it.


That's just me though...and you're just you. Wonderful old you, who used to be the pride and joy of our little internet community. It really is crushing to me to know that I am so disliked by random people on the internet. How will I ever become the musician that I want to become, knowing that you stopped coming here all because of me?!

[havyyck]

I disagree with what Jordan says. There are CALIBURS of musicians. I've known people who are just NATURALLY talented and pick up instruments and the concepts of music quickly and also have the dedication and discipline to do the hard work to become a really great player. I've also known people who just wanted to be musicians but had no real flare and also didn't do the work required to become a competent musician. The former is BETTER than the latter. Let's face it, there are degrees of accomplishment among people. I've also known people who are talented but are TOO LAZY to take lessons or practice scales or learn theory. People with a natural gift OR just the determination to do the work and become competent are BETTER musicians than the ones that just talk about how good they are...

[Georges]

Jordan only referred to the fact that musicians have many facettes and that they cannot only be "measured" by their technical skills.

[organmeister]

and none of them have picked up again after they got bumped, so I'm not seeing a huge point to it.

The point is that the forum is a place where people can express themselves.

I do not hate you. However, I will defend myself for posting to an old thread instead of opening a new one. I do not see why you think people hate you. I have read a lot old threads you are participating in and do not see people generally hating you. I dont think random people on the internet can really hate someone. You do not even know the person well enough to hate them. Hate is a strong word. I hate Hitler. It would be pointless to actually hate someone on the internet unless they were trying to destroy freedom, or encourage people to hurt children, were ruthlessly exploiting others, etc. I guess this crap is on the internet come to think of it.

I have read a lot of old posts and not bothered to post to them. When I have a strong opinion about something I am going to "weigh in" as LithoJazzoSphere puts it. Someone could come along a year from now and read it or no one can ever read it. It makes no difference. I got a chance to think about the topic and write about it. So it helped me clarify my own thoughts.

Its like practicing music. You spend hours and hours by yourself presenting your music to the air. Its worth it for that chance to perform well for a live audience.

This is a good musical forum though. It is well administered. There used to be more activities though. Like everyone shredding to provided back up tracks and posting them. It would be cool to assemble DT and other covers. Or have an activity like everyone covering a certain song and posting it in a single thread.

One last thing. I am not going to open a new thread if there is already one focused enough to post to.

[Liquid Shadow]

I think you misunderstood my post. I quoted Farren, who has an obvious strong dislike for me. I know that most of the people here, yourself included, don't have a problem with me...at least out in the open. ;)


I totally understand what you're saying though about having a chance to think and write on the subject. I've got a few MS Word documents on the computer in my room that were just me writing out thoughts on miscellaneous things. The difference is that yours may actually get read (well...they already have by several people), whereas mine are sitting there doing nothing but making me pleased that I've attemped to organize my thoughts on certain subjects. Nobody is going to read them, those files just sitting there on a computer doing nothing but existing because I want them to.

So in that sense, there's quite a bit more merit to you bumping this thread than how I spend my free time. :p

[organmeister]

Its cool. I thought I needed to protect my freedom to post.