The Theory Behind Soloing

[NoSunset]

Greetings Everyone!

I've just been reading with great interest the thread entitled "I wanna shred...", and had some questions i wanted to ask, but didn't want to hijack the thread, so to speak.

I'm quite a novice on the keys, and have recently run into considerable problems when trying to improvise and / or write solo passages. I'm a member of the wonderful OC, and have been playing around with some blues scales and pentatonic scales in an attempt to come up with some simple solo ideas. I know one shouldn't just use these scales, but i am only a beginner and thought it would be a good place to start! The problem is, i don't know when to use what scale. My musical ear isn't the best at the moment (give it time!), so when i hear a chord progression, i don't instantly know what notes will work or sound "right" over the top. For instance, when would it sound good to use a C blues scale? Or, similarly, what scales might sound good over an Am G Em F progession?

I understand that i must be looking at things in a very oversimplified manner, but like i say i am painfully novice in this area! Any tips you guys can give to a poor newbie such as myself about how to begin looking at this area would be amazing.

Thank you very much in advance for any light you can shed on the matter!

Regards,

Pat

[VINOD]

I'm not really a member in OC
but i did have the opportunity to check out J.R's Keyboard Wizardry
i'm not very sure if he explains in OC the thing he explains in wizardry

But I think it's a very good nd very inspiring video for Beginners
So i'd suggest you to check that out

Secondly , i don't really know how many of the other forum members would agree with me on this but
i'd also like to suggest that try to play as many songs as possible
and try to analyze the chord changes with the leads
if there are no leads consider the vocal parts as leads
try to analyze the changes in scale with the chords

this might sound wierd but i personnally used to play a lot of SLASH's leads on the board along with the backing
mainly because i find his scale and lead changes with chords
Very interesting



So there you go .....
But it's just a suggestion from me
There are lots of expereinced players here
Who i think would be able to give you better suggestions than mine

and last but not the least
Just stick around in the forum for a while try to go through each and every thread - -- trust me you'll learn a lot

Bye
Keep Rockin


Vinod

[Mother.Mosquito]

It's always important to know to what key the chords in a prograssion belong.
To take your Am/G/Em/F progression: They're all part of A minor. Which is the parallel of C major. Proove: Play a C major scale. Pick out the sixth (the a) and build a triad on it - voila: the Am chord. Pick the fifth (the g), build a triad and get the G chord. Same with the 3rd (Em) and the fourth (F).
Knowing this, you might recognize that you can play with a C major scale over the whole progression!!! Could it be more easy!?

[ To tell the whole truth: you play
A aeolic (Cmaj scale starting at A) over Am,
G mixolydian (Cmaj scale starting at G) over G;
E Phrygian (Cmaj scale starting at E) over Em; and
F lydian (Cmaj scale starting at F) over F ]

I guess this might sound very confusing to a newbe (as it did to me in the beginning, too) but as you will get into that scale stuff it will bekome more and more to a secon nature.

I recommend "The Jazz Piano Book" by Mark Levine which tells you all about scales and how to use them and a whole lot more!

[Liquid Shadow]

You know when to use what scale by being in the correct key, as Mosquito said. As far as the "right" notes to use over certain chords...these are usually the notes in the triad.

Let's say you are doing a jam in A minor. The notes of the triad are A, C, and E. When you are soloing over this, these are the notes that will sound "good," and generally what you want to center around. The other notes serve as passing tones, and are useful in creating tension. For example...I could play an ascending Am arpeggio (A-C-E in two octaves) and after the last E, I could go up to the F above it and hold that out. It is not a note found in the Am triad, so it will not sound consonant like the other notes would. However, it is in the key of Am, so it still sounds correct. If you play this yourself, you'll notice the tension that it builds in wanting to resolve back down to the E.


So to answer your question...you know what notes to play and when to use what scale by knowing the key you are in, and you know the notes to focus on or how to build and release tension by knowing the chord tones (triad) and the tendencies that other notes within the key have to "pull" up or down to these triad notes.



Over that progression, the notes that you would use throughout the entire thing are A-B-C-D-E-F-G, since it is in A minor. But over each chord, you would emphasize a different set of notes...

Am - A C E
Gmaj - G B D
Em - E G B
Fmaj - F A C



There's a lot of theory involved, and yet hardly any at all. I remember when I was learning everything about this it all seemed so complicated and like there was so much to learn, but it is all pretty simple once you get a grasp on everything, and everything ties in with everything else.

[King_Ellesar]

one thing i think was mentioned on Keyboard Wizardry and not here yet, and what i agree has a nice sound to it, is play the Relative Minor Blues scale over the major chord progression if there is one. For example, if your chord progression is one in G, (like G, Em, C, D), try playing the relative minor (Em) blues scale over it, improvize a little.

btw, Em blues Scale= E G A Bb B D E

happy soloing!

[Bastardo Demono]

ok so its not too hard to figure out what scales you can play in based a simple triad chord progression that has notes that all comprise a particular scale, like I IV V7 of cmaj and all the modes/related scales, but solos get pretty boring if they never go outside the key of the song, and not all chord progressions will be just chords in the same key, so then what knowledge do you need to get good at doing this?

[Bastardo Demono]

one thing i think was mentioned on Keyboard Wizardry and not here yet, and what i agree has a nice sound to it, is play the Relative Minor Blues scale over the major chord progression if there is one. For example, if your chord progression is one in G, (like G, Em, C, D), try playing the relative minor (Em) blues scale over it, improvize a little.

btw, Em blues Scale= E G A Bb B D E

happy soloing!

heart and soul bluesified :lol:

[Dylan Burnett]

My advice is be creative, I can just use a basic blues scale with a distortion gutar sound, and just play with it while throwing in pitch bend and modulations every here and there. But those are shed solos, in terms or actual solos, I really don't know, I think they should come from the heart, and not be a bunch of notes in a scale. That I think is the art of soloing.

[Liquid Shadow]

and not all chord progressions will be just chords in the same key, so then what knowledge do you need to get good at doing this?


Find notes that exist in both keys, and use these as an axis to shift the tonality around.


Making stuff up here...


Let's say that a song does 4 measures of Am, 2 measures of EbMaj, and then 2 measures of Bbm. I think that'd be a weird sounding progression, but ignore that...

So first we have Am...ABCDEFG. Then here we are with the root note a tritone away. OH NOS!!!!11

EbMaj uses Eb F G Ab Bb C D. The bold notes occur in both keys thus far, so as you neared the end of the Am part, you would want to focus on these so that when the tonality shifts you are already using part of the key you are about to swap into. Then you play in EbMaj for a bit, and Bbm starts creeping up.

Bb C Db Eb F Gb Ab

These keys have a fair bit more in common, and a pretty obvious way to switch between them...in Eb, the 5th would be Bb, which is the tonic of the key you're about to switch in. That'd probably be the best way to do that one...you usually want to use chord tones from both keys if possible. Of course this isn't the only way to do it...there's endless possibilities, but that's sorta the foundation for it.

[Irish]

I just want to note that this topic is very useful, and I am learning a lot from it. If anyone else has any ideas, I'm sure those of us who still aren't as good as the rest could benefit.

I really can't add on to what's been said here, they pretty much covered the extent of my knowledge. Try to stay in the key of the song, and use blues scales. That's all the soloing I know.

[Eric Zane]

Have you got the right thinking yet? For an example, when you're play the G major chord, you're able to solo in E blues. You're using the same notes, but starts at the G instead of E.
Here's an easy finger setup for you:
E blues
E G A Bb B D E
1 2 3 4 1 2 3 (or if you like to start over, replace the last middle finger with your thumb
G "major" blues

G A Bb B D E G
1 2 3 1 2 3 5 (or if you like to start over, replace the last pinky finger with your thumb

But also note: some chords may work fine with the blues scales as well. Just put up a simple track, containing G, Em and D. Now take a look at the D major scale.
D E F# G A H C#
Next, take a look at the E blues scale. You'll notice that almost every note in the E blues exists in the D major scale.
Follow up: try using the E blues scale on every chord. You'll find them working pretty nice together.

Well, that's one of the beautys of the blues scale. 8)

[Junnart83]

I can agree with you all, but I think that something's missin'. I mean: it strictly depends on the kind of "general melody" you play. It's important, no doubt 'bout it (2), that you "mark" the chord-related notes during a Lead Solo, referring on both pentatonic and blues scales. Anyway, personally (=that's a repliable opinion), I like to play the 9th key during "soft" songs' soloing (I mean, the upper D for a C chord, the upper F# for a E chord and so on) and the 3rd major/minor key during "harder" songs.

I'm waiting for replies, insults, bad words of any kind!!! ^^

[Mother.Mosquito]

solos get pretty boring if they never go outside the key of the song, and not all chord progressions will be just chords in the same key, so then what knowledge do you need to get good at doing this?

If you wanna get a little more "outside" the common stuff, try using the melodic minor key and its modes. If you've a usual II - V - I progression in C for example:

Dm7 - G7 - CMaj7

you can change that to:

Dm7(b5) (halfdiminished) - Galt. (altered) - CmMaj

Now you can play the melodic minor modes over it (melodic minor is like major, but with a minor third - C melodic minor: C D Eb F G A H)

Be aware that you now have to change keys with every chord:
D halfdiminished belongs to F melodic minor;
G altered to Ab melodic minor, and
CmMaj to C melodic minor.

This gives you a way more exotic sound. And this is only one possibility. You can play so many different scales over the chords, each giving you a different sound.

Again I recommend "The Jazz Piano Book"

[DT4L]

id say that if you want to solo in a good comfotable way wich sounds "right" then stick with the blues and stick to the chord tones. then again, if you wanna mix it up a bit then get into modes, like phrygian or locrian for a evil kind of sound or lydian, mixolydian and dorian for a more happy kind of sound. i personally try to incorperate modes into bluesy playing just to make it sound a bit different. i think writing a good solo is kinda like cooking a soup. the right amount of different things to make it sound/taste interesting but not just a mish mash of everything.
thats it, happy playing/cooking

[NoSunset]

Cheers guys, this is really useful.

One other thing, can you only use blues scales when the constituent notes are all contained in the major scale of the triad your playing, generalyl speaking?

Thanks a lot!

Regards,

Pat

[Eric Zane]

Cheers guys, this is really useful.

One other thing, can you only use blues scales when the constituent notes are all contained in the major scale of the triad your playing, generalyl speaking?

Thanks a lot!

Regards,

Pat
There's no right or wrong. I.e. jazz solos. ;)

[Phred]

.....
D E F# G A H C#


I don't have an H key ;)

Seriously, what note does H represent again? I am guessing B from the context, but am unsure

[Eric Zane]

.....
D E F# G A H C#


I don't have an H key ;)

Seriously, what note does H represent again? I am guessing B from the context, but am unsure
Oh, sorry. I'm Swedish. :)
Of course it's B. I'm always saying H (in Sweden) to be understood. :)

[Mother.Mosquito]

I'm from germany and we also have this B - H problem, it's really annoying. You say "play a B" and no one knows if you're meaning Bb or "H"
And all those trouble just because a medieval monk made a writing mistake! :evil:

[Liquid Shadow]

I can agree with you all, but I think that something's missin'. I mean: it strictly depends on the kind of "general melody" you play. It's important, no doubt 'bout it (2), that you "mark" the chord-related notes during a Lead Solo, referring on both pentatonic and blues scales. Anyway, personally (=that's a repliable opinion), I like to play the 9th key during "soft" songs' soloing (I mean, the upper D for a C chord, the upper F# for a E chord and so on) and the 3rd major/minor key during "harder" songs.

I'm waiting for replies, insults, bad words of any kind!!! ^^


I touched on that a little bit...playing notes that aren't chord tones to create tension, since they want to resolve to the chord tones. Of course you are going to make up melodies that go outside of those chord tones...you aren't limited to just them, but they are the notes that you generally want to focus on, especially as a beginner.



Um...another way I just thought of explaining it...

Ok, you're playing along in C major, doing some runs or melodies or whatever, and then you hold out a G. Whatever idea you were playing will sound complete at this point, since you are holding out a chord tone. However, if you were to hold out a B, there would be massive tension building up in wanting to resolve up to the C. You could play around with this...play something using B, D, and E so that you're dancing around the tonic note, and the listener wants to hear you finally hit it but you keep toying with them, and then finally resolve it.

Notes besides the chord tones create tension. The chord tones relieve that tension, and are the notes you want to use to finish off different phrases so that they sound "complete"


Mike Pinella does a real nice example of tension and release in his solo in The Turning. He's playing in B minor (B C# D E F# G A)...for the first 3 bars he is playing some busy stuff, and at the end of the 4th bar he play a G and bends up to an A and holds that real quick, which wants to resolve up to the B, and he does just that. The timing of it and his note choice there build a real nice climax to it.

[Junnart83]

It's true that, quite often, timing plays a pivotal role in soloing!