What it takes to be good

[St0rMl0rD]

I was just wondering about the statement, which says that playing keyboards well consists of 20% which represents talent, and 80% of exercise...Is that true?

And if there are, what are other things that can make you be good?

\m/

[Taurus]

Hmm well, i suppose thats true. Practice makes perfect, but if you dont have the talent..balbla..

Though i think i came to the point where i seem to care less and less about technique, how fast somebody can play, and how unbelievable stunts he can perform etc..
Musicality counts a lot more for me. And i think thats a personal creativity wich other people cant learn 123. Its a part of yourself, your soul, your thhinking, your influences from the music you heard since you were a little 5y old todler..
Before you have it under control well to put off a good result can take years and years and years. With this comes instrumentation, hearing, pitch interval recognition, thinking-like-a-composer in your head, dozing off during a conversation because that view out of the window actually inspired your thinking to compose something unconsiously in your head!!!
Stuff like that you cant learn with just practicing. You need to have the talent and soul dedicated to music...

(a big fat IMO!!! here)

Your thoughts?

[Enigma™]

What is important in the professional world is simply that: Getting the job done. If you're hired to play 2 notes in a 4 hour set, and you're getting paid to do it... That's EXACTLY your job. Make sure you don't miss those 2 notes either, because they're THAT important.

In live situations, that's the importance is making sure you don't miss the que's, making sure you have your parts down and making sure you can pull them of perfectly every time. *that's not ALWAYS the case when you're a huge band, but if you're sitting in, you HAVE To be able to play just about anything required on the spot*

These are things that I think JR has right on is that he can play MOSTLY anything without mistake. We're all human...
The point is that we all have an AREA that we can play things KNOWING we won't make a mistake.
In my personal life, my comping I'm the happiest with. I can jump from chord to chord, change to change reading off of a lead, and I can keep up in most cases *As long as It's not hardcore Jazz* without a problem.
But, improvisation is where my problem is... I can make something up but it's keeping it interesting, etc.

I'm sure you all know where your "weak" spots are and the idea is trying to work on those to be able to handle more "intense" situations :)

[Vlakey]

it doesn't matter how talented you are...
Three most important things the keyboard player has to master are to:
1. SHRDE AS FASST AS POSIBEL!!!1!!1! \m/
2. Keep your keyboard tilted Jens style \m/
3. Grow long curly hair, cause chicks dig it \m/

I'm joking of course...
.
.
.
.
.
...only the first two are important. :lol:

[merijn]

I think it's more talent. Some people can practise and practise but never be good, i'd say 50-50.

[LiQuId TeNsIoN]

Definitively it is the talent :P

[ffox]

I think it's more talent. Some people can practise and practise but never be good, i'd say 50-50.

I agree.

Talent has something to do with the speed of learning to play good.

[Liquid Shadow]

3. Grow long curly hair, cause chicks dig it \m/




I can verify this statement from personal experience 8)

[merijn]

3. Grow long curly hair, cause chicks dig it \m/




I can verify this statement from personal experience 8)

And I'm on it! Will take some time though. :D

[Deceit]

Not that I'm any good, but to be good as a keyboardist there are three main achievements:
-Phrasing
-Technique
-Sounds
In this view, talent almost becomes practice. Talent grows with you as a musician AND A LISTENER. If you listen deeply and experience a lot of music, you understand phrasing/technique/sounds (let's say, how Jens Johansson did with Allan Holdsworth) and make it part of your playing, therefore your own phrasing/technique/sounds grow.
No one should mystify about natural talent because NOTHING is innate. Everything is due to your past experiences, since when you were a child and started learning how to walk or talk, or even before.
Then, if you become famous, it's just a matter of meeting the label's interests and the listener's taste. But that's not ALL about being good.
Deceit.

[ChrisMcCoy]

I was just wondering about the statement, which says that playing keyboards well consists of 20% which represents talent, and 80% of exercise...Is that true?

And if there are, what are other things that can make you be good?

\m/

I think that goes beyond just playing keyboards...it probably applies to acting, dancing, playing other instruments too :shock:

[pHaTaL_eRrOr]

I'm not looking for free encouragement here, but it's funny that this topic came up:

I've been a musician for many years. (Trumpet mainly, and some guitar and drums) But I've decided that I'm putting everything I've got into the keys... It's the most honest instrument there is, and the only instrument for a well rounded composer (Which I want to be)

At 27 years old I'm taking lessons...and my teacher has assesed me after my first 2...he said I have perfect pitch, can sing every interval off the top of my head, and better reflexes than a 12 year old.

My problem is this: I get SOOOO frustrated feeling like I'm starting over again... Scales are easy to learn and remember, but when it comes to reading music/learning pieces I feel like I'm crawling WAY too slow. My first piece to learn is Scene Three: Through My Words. First page came ok, but when the right hand gets more interesting, I'm at a total loss and get so frustrated I can't look at it for more than 5 minutes without wanting to throw the thing out the window.

How did you veterans get over that "I suck and can't play for shit" mentality when you were starting out?


Thanks for letting me ramble.

[Kurzweilfreak]

How did you veterans get over that "I suck and can't play for shit" mentality when you were starting out?

We were just the shit and never sucked at it. :P Just joking.


My problem is this: I get SOOOO frustrated feeling like I'm starting over again... Scales are easy to learn and remember, but when it comes to reading music/learning pieces I feel like I'm crawling WAY too slow. My first piece to learn is Scene Three: Through My Words. First page came ok, but when the right hand gets more interesting, I'm at a total loss and get so frustrated I can't look at it for more than 5 minutes without wanting to throw the thing out the window.

It just takes practice and repetition and concentration, just like any other physical skill. If you're trying to practice and you keep fumbling with it, then just play it slower. You aren't doing yourself any favors by trying to play it faster and messing up teaching your muscles the WRONG way to move. Only by moving your muscles the correct way you want them to will they learn. If you have to do it slowly, then do it slowly, but do it RIGHT.

Do it with a metronome so that you're forced to stay in tempo. You don't want to play with a jerky tempo but have it be steady and consistant the whole way through. Then gradually start to speed it up once you think your muscles have gotten it. If you get a speed where you're starting to fumble again, take it down one notch and practice it again until you're confident and start bring it up again. Repeat until desired tempo reached. :wink:

[Bastardo Demono]

My problem is this: I get SOOOO frustrated feeling like I'm starting over again... Scales are easy to learn and remember, but when it comes to reading music/learning pieces I feel like I'm crawling WAY too slow. My first piece to learn is Scene Three: Through My Words. First page came ok, but when the right hand gets more interesting, I'm at a total loss and get so frustrated I can't look at it for more than 5 minutes without wanting to throw the thing out the window.

How did you veterans get over that "I suck and can't play for shit" mentality when you were starting out?



well I am no veteran but the answer to this is very simple: dont bite off more then you can chew. Instead of trying to tackle more difficult pieces and have the "I suck and cant play for shit" mentality, take on some simplier pieces that you still like. Its not like there is a shortage of easy popular/rock/classical songs to learn, and just because it isnt a chopin etude or dream theater song doesnt mean it wont be satisfying to learn. You should challenge yourself, but save the extremely frustrating challenges for later when you have more experience under your belt. I am surprised your teacher would start you off with that, even if you do have that musical experience/skill under your belt. Do some stuff that, when you see it, you are like "hey I could probably get this down with some decent amount of practise" instead of "$#%$^ THIS MUSIC". ok?

[Bastardo Demono]

3. Grow long curly hair, cause chicks dig it \m/




I can verify this statement from personal experience 8)

I dont know, maybe long flowing hair works great for guitarists, but I think with piano/keyboard you have a lot more success going for the classier chicks who like dudes clean shaved. But still, you can be cousin it or beetljuice, and if you are good at piano you are pretty much set anyway. wish I was hehe

[Liquid Shadow]

The following equation holds the secret of life

Long Hair + Play Misty = Girls x Melt

:wink:

[siebenboy]

Hmm, is there any hope for a really short-haired guy? (if he plays about 3 quarters as good as Jordan?)

(just curious :P )


Plus, I have blonde hair, so growing it out would make me nervous.

oop! gotta finish this reply, my girl just signed on! :P

[John]

I don't have long hair, but I can play Misty. I'd grow the long hair, but I don't think the office or my wife would go for it. Plus I usually go for functionality. Short hair is functional.

I definetly don't consider myself a "tallent", but I've been doing gigs for a while and did my first solo gig not too long ago. Be professional (show up on time & ready to go). Everybody makes mistakes. I was once told by my music director that live performance is an exercise in recovery (you can make mistakes, but the music must go on). If you make flub (clam) here and there, probably no one will really notice unless you get out of time (practice with a metronome).

About the frustration & practicing. Pick songs that are a challenge, but doable. Practice with a Metronome. For classical numbers, I often practice the hands seperately, then put them together (a lot of people do it this way). Did I mention metronome.

Good luck, John.

[Liquid Shadow]

Hmm, is there any hope for a really short-haired guy? (if he plays about 3 quarters as good as Jordan?)

(just curious :P )


Plus, I have blonde hair, so growing it out would make me nervous.

oop! gotta finish this reply, my girl just signed on! :P

You have a girl...I think that speaks for itself. :wink:

[siebenboy]

Hmm, is there any hope for a really short-haired guy? (if he plays about 3 quarters as good as Jordan?)

(just curious :P )


Plus, I have blonde hair, so growing it out would make me nervous.

oop! gotta finish this reply, my girl just signed on! :P

You have a girl...I think that speaks for itself. :wink:

Yeah, that's true.

(I've never heard of Misty before though. I'm looking it up right now)

[Georges]

I was just wondering about the statement, which says that playing keyboards well consists of 20% which represents talent, and 80% of exercise...Is that true?

There is no magic formula, it's actually 100% practice. If you have some or more talent, great, your learning will be quicker than for others but you still have to practice. Without practice, no success. Plus like everything in life, music requires some patience, too. Nothing happens within 1 year, not even for the most talented musician on Earth - there are so many things to discover and it's not only about technique, music is about life, and life experience you need to become a musician.

I can only stress that talent helps you to advance quicker, but with less talent you can still get at the same level, with the only difference that in that case you have to practice a bit more.

Pro musicians play 5-7 hours a day, I hope that makes somewhat clear that practice is a must; and I am not talking about playing 5-7 hours Hanon exercises, when I mean practice I mean the whole stuff: rhythm, harmony, improvisation, lead, technique, etc.. As for creativity, even that you can train ...

A good teacher will of course help more than a bad teacher, certainly, but even he/she cannot do the practicing for you.

[pHaTaL_eRrOr]

How do you find a good teacher? I just fired mine for canceling on me 2 weeks in a row and when he does come, making me play a few scales, talking theory for 5 minutes, then charging me $55.

I'd think there would be a TON of great teachers in the Philly area... but an online search only turned up a handful, and I'm not sure how to eliminate/chose....

[Zaki]

1st thing to have talent is necessery , for develope this talent its necessery to practice but the quality of practice before its quantity