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Mornor
09-04-2004, 01:43 PM
Hello fellow musicians!

I've been playing the guitar for 4 years now. I'm really interested in music and wanting to learn some more theory. That's why I decided to get some classical education in a music school. I decided to learn piano.

My problem: I don't have a piano/keyboard. I'm looking for a cheap keyboard that is just good enough for a beginner. I don't need something special, just something that I can practice on, like my first guitar. Which keyboard do you guys recommend me?

Thanks in advance! :)

Last Viking
09-04-2004, 03:58 PM
Hello and welcome to forum!
There are options that you should check out:
-Of course the best would be a digital piano or something like that with full length keyboard, but it isn't cheapest
alternative
-Second you can have a mini-casio with 10 different sounds and 8 different rythm patterns, very cheap, but lacking
of all things. (better to not check out)
-Then you have these Portable Keyboards for example Yamaha DGX-200,300,500 and Casio WK series. These are
lightweight, worth of money, good sounding and stuff like that. I recommend you these options. You should ask
Liquid Shadow about WK 3500, i think he knows casio very well. Of course on these keyboards key-action is not
best class but it's ok for practising theory and beginner playing (of course some pro's can
also use them for practising like Liquid Shadow).

Check these:
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/WK3500/
http://www.epinions.com/content_148828360324

Spock's Theater
09-05-2004, 04:59 PM
Casio WK >> Yamaha DGX

I own a Casio WK and it's IMO a lot better than a Yamaha DGX.

http://www.hut.fi/~asonnine/caiso.JPG

Omega Monkey
09-06-2004, 01:38 PM
I would go with maybe a 10 or 15 year old synth, rather than some consumer level yamaha or casio toy. I've got an ensoniq SQ1+ that I paid about $200 for which is pretty good. The sounds arent all great, but the pianos are good and there are some other nice ones, and its a pretty decent controller for an unweighted 61. There are lots of other things like that out there too. Ensoniq, Yamaha, Roland, Korg all have some older keyboards that you can get for pretty cheap (in the $100-$400 range). Go to these sites (I dont why this isnt a sticky yet):

www.vintagesynth.com

www.sonicstate.com

www.harmonycentral.com

to check out info on tons of synths, then you can find the stuff on ebay and see what kind of prices it goes for (search completed items for the best gauge of prices).

From my experience there are quite a few "lost" synths out there that are pretty good, you just have to know how to find them.

I guess if you are mostly focusing on piano, you could get something like an 88 key controller (maybe like a Yamaha KX-88, good enough for Chick Corea) and a piano module (like an Alesis Nanopiano). That would run you maybe 400-550 range, but you would have a full size weighted keyboard.

Liquid Shadow
09-09-2004, 12:25 AM
-Then you have these Portable Keyboards for example Yamaha DGX-200,300,500 and Casio WK series. These are
lightweight, worth of money, good sounding and stuff like that. I recommend you these options. You should ask
Liquid Shadow about WK 3500, i think he knows casio very well. Of course on these keyboards key-action is not
best class but it's ok for practising theory and beginner playing (of course some pro's can
also use them for practising like Liquid Shadow).



Not quite professional yet, but I appreciate the kind words. :wink:

Yeah...I'd say a WK3000 would be a good board to start on. I have a 3500, but they're the same thing...the 3000 just doesnt have a mod wheel (non-manual vibrato is crap, so no loss there) and no disk drive, but you can get around that with a smart media card. The sounds are the same on both, its just those little things and its a $100 difference.

So for $300 bucks, you could get yourself this:

http://www.digitalsoundplanet.com/VirtualStudios/Listen/usersong.php?userid=145223

Last Viking
09-09-2004, 12:39 AM
Not quite professional yet, but I appreciate the kind words. :wink:


I know but if you're beginner, maybe you dont wanna pay like 2000 for
"real synth". I've started with those also, and even if they weren't
professional they were good at start. I accept with omega monkey also
maybe it's not worth of getting a brand new instrument. I don't know
about those instruments but i know that Korg's M1 is cheap and well-
built (lots of conversation :lol: )...

Omega Monkey
09-09-2004, 03:20 PM
(non-manual vibrato is crap, so no loss there)

Oh, young grasshopper, you have many hills yet to climb.

Seriously though, its very handy having a preset vibrato around to use, and at any rate, the difference is minimal in most cases. Plus, without a mod wheel, you cant really do things like bending AND vibrato at the same time. Plus, dont forget a mod wheel can affect more than just pitch (ie filter, amplitude, crossfading between different sounds, etc...).

Just remember, every extra control device just allows for more expressive capability.

Scrap
09-09-2004, 03:32 PM
Plus, without a mod wheel, you cant really do things like bending AND vibrato at the same time.

Jordan teaches this technique exclusively (in his videos, on the OC, and at the master classes) using just a pitch wheel. And unless you're smoking crack or have never really paid full attention to a guitar's vibrato, you'll know that manual vibrato is far, far more expressive than using some silly LFO modulation. Guitarists bend notes and vibrato their bends all the time with just their fingers (Gilmour, Rothery, so on). Jordan does it all over Rhythm of Time, as well as on the DT and LTE albums. Rarely does Jordan use the mod wheel for its default function.

Of course, if you want your vibrato to sound artificial and not guitar-like, then I suppose using the mod wheel is just fine.

But, getting back to the original subject... is a beginner using a cheap keyboard going to need an assignable mod wheel? Probably not. :P

Liquid Shadow
09-09-2004, 07:12 PM
About mod-wheel vibrato...

I don't know if all keyboards do this, but on the Casio at least, the modulation bends the pitch DOWN. When a guitarist uses vibrato, he is slightly bending the string UP. Thus, it sounds über fake and corny (at least to me) to use modulation, except in rare cases. Plus, it's a computerized LFO rate that controls the vibrato, as opposed to the expression of the soloist.

That's just my opinion though. Take me to the gallows if you feel so inclined, that's just my view on things. Manual vibrato is exponentially more expressive and sounds way more musical as opposed to sounding like an old Nintendo video game.

lighthouse
09-10-2004, 12:23 PM
I totally agree with you Liquid. Manual vibrato is THE only thing that sounds natural. I only use modulation for tremolo when I use a rhodes sound, or to increase the speed of the rotors of the Leslie in a hammond patch.



Juan Pablo