piano fundementals

[craig1928]

http://www.pianofundamentals.com/book/en/1.II.1

Still very much a beginner and was going to follow along with this guy, anyone know if this is a good resource and should I take what he says as gospel, like I notice he says Hanon exercises are no use for example.

[motorhead9999]

First I'll say you shouldn't take what I say as gospel either. Having read a decent amount of what he's saying though, I have to disagree with a lot of his views. He seems to base his views solely on the instant gratification of learning a piece, rather than the underlying tenant of learning technique, and using that technique to learn said piece.

What exercises (like scales, or Hanon, or Czerny) impart I think is critical to being able to play. They teach finger dexterity, endurance and other important skills that pieces use. The author argues that you should just be able to sit in front of a piece, and crank it out. His arguement on using hands separate vs hands together at first is a good technique and I certainly have no objections to it, and have used that "secret" plenty of times. He says you should be able to play fur elise using his technique in no time. Sure, maybe. That works on a relatively simple piece that has a lot of repetitive segments. Now, try and sit down and play an extremely difficult concert piece using his method and see how much you will struggle and suffer.

The best analogy I can come up with is learning to drive. Sure you can go to driving school and have someone teach you basics, technique and skill, but that's not very fun is it? Why not just hop in a car and start driving? That's much more fun, and gives you the instant gratification that you're driving. And for a lot of people who just want to drive to the store, or go from point A to point B, that'll be fine. However, if you have aspirations to be a Indy or Formula 1 driver, you will have completely screwed yourself. There will be an invisible wall that you will hit that will prevent you from becoming better, and the road to that wall will often have some very bumpy segments and poor performances. This is because you don't have the fundamental base to know how to adapt to future occurances.

Anyways, my advice to you is to stick with exercises as a portion of your practice. The more you can nail those exercises, the easier a time you'll have handling more progressively difficult pieces of music.

Also, I would add that especially as a beginner, having a real person as a teacher I think is indispensible, and that teaching yourself will cause you to develop lots of bad habits. Just my two cents though.

[craig1928]

thanks for the response, really appreciate it, do you know any good resources to follow? I'm severely lacking direction, thanks again.

[Maximus]

First I'll say you shouldn't take what I say as gospel either. Having read a decent amount of what he's saying though, I have to disagree with a lot of his views. He seems to base his views solely on the instant gratification of learning a piece, rather than the underlying tenant of learning technique, and using that technique to learn said piece.



+1

im all for the old lady hitting you with a ruler when you mess up a note.

then when you have some technique, decide if that works for you.

Remember pretty much ALL the of best keyboard players ARE classically trained, and that's not coincidence.

[motorhead9999]

Right. And the basis of any classical training is technique. Its not about just learning piece after piece after piece. That will work in certain situations. If you just want to be a gigging keyboardist in a cover band or wedding band, then cramming up on songs will be fine. But if you want to be a serious musician, you have to get your technique down.

As for suggestions on where to start, first thing I'd suggest is a good teacher, preferably the old lady with a ruler that Maximus suggested. In lieu of that though, start by learning your major and minor scales, and get some good exercise books. I definitely suggest Hanon: The Virtuoso Pianist in 60 exercises (there's different versions of it, and its sometimes split into 3 different books, so just make sure you get the complete edition). I'd recommend some stuff by Czerny, but I'm not sure what to suggest, as the stuff I've just started from him is probably more advanced than you are at (I'm assuming you are a complete newbie to the world of piano/keyboard).

Also, I'm not sure what you're using, but make sure you either get yourself a piano, or a fully weighted keyboard. You need to train your hand to work with a standard keyboard, and the light synthy feel of most of the generic keyboards out there will hurt you when you're trying to learn.

[awaken77]

Also, I'm not sure what you're using, but make sure you either get yourself a piano, or a fully weighted keyboard. You need to train your hand to work with a standard keyboard, and the light synthy feel of most of the generic keyboards out there will hurt you when you're trying to learn.


I heard that many times, but I think that's exaggerated (especially by old ladies with the ruler :- ) )

I'm learning on semi-weighted keyboard (organ-type action) , and I have no problems with real piano keyboard - I need some time to adjust force of the fingers to particular instrument, but i wouldt' say it's much harder .
On the contrary, hammer-action keyboard is easier for me, to hold and sustain chords , because it have no "springy" feel

[Bigs]

One of the prevailing arguments for Hanon is that 'successful people have trained using Hanon for years', which is probably true. However, the fact that there is no scientific basis for the exercises and that they hardly can be called musical bugs me. There must be a better way.

You see the same thing in sports: you still see people jogging on the treadmill for 1,5 hours because they believe you only burn fat 1) at low intensities and 2) after exercising for at least 30 minutes. Both have long been debunked (when you exercise at mid-high intensity you'll burn more fat than at low intensities and you start burning fat immediately, even though you'll burn a lot of sugar at well in the beginning), but people still cling to them because that's what they know.

Having said that, if I wanted to be a concert pianist, I'd probably exercise the s**t out of my Hanon book :) But I don't aspire that currently, so I rather focus on playing music and practicing scales and basic hand+finger independence exercises so I can enjoy playing my instrument.

[motorhead9999]

I see your point Bigs. I can see the where you're coming from in terms of musicality, but musicality isn't always the point of the exercise. There's a lot of muscle memory that needs to be learned to break through to different levels. For some, just learning to play some scales and arpeggios will be enough to do what they want. However, if you're looking to do more difficult pieces, those not-so-good sounding exercises are what will help enable you to play. They teach you how to hold your hands properly during somewhat strenuous techniques, or passages, as well as condition your hands.

To further your sports analogy though, major league superstars still take batting practice and outfield/infield practice even though they're at the top of their level. Its all about technique, practice and perseverence.

[Maximus]

About the synth Vrs piano, all i know is that if you only play and practice on a synth, when you get in front of a real piano (a real grand not a beat up upright) and you try to play something difficult, you will simply will not be able to play it, because your hands will not have the stamina for it.

thats just my 2 cents

[motorhead9999]

There's most certainly a difference Maximus, just like you said. Although the weighting between the different models I think is something that with a little more practice can be fairly easily overcome, the real deal for me is the feel. There are certain expressive gestures in the feel of a real piano bed that I still don't feel is quite there on even fully weighted synths. But still, a full hammer weighted keyboard will still be a better choice than a lighter weight board.

[Maximus]

There's most certainly a difference Maximus, just like you said. Although the weighting between the different models I think is something that with a little more practice can be fairly easily overcome, the real deal for me is the feel. There are certain expressive gestures in the feel of a real piano bed that I still don't feel is quite there on even fully weighted synths. But still, a full hammer weighted keyboard will still be a better choice than a lighter weight board. +1

have you tried the roland's (ivory feel) keybed? (G8, RD700GX) im not a total fan of their piano sound, but thats a good keybed, especially if you like heavy actions.

[motorhead9999]

+1

have you tried the roland's (ivory feel) keybed? (G8, RD700GX) im not a total fan of their piano sound, but thats a good keybed, especially if you like heavy actions.

I can't honestly say I have, at least not on the G. I've never been a fan of roland's workstation sound (as you state), so I've never really looked at them. Unfortunately, I live an inconvenient distance from Sam Ash, and even they don't stock a lot of things on the floor, so I don't get a real chance on trying much gear out. Normally, I have to buy a synth based on sound alone that I hear on a youtube video, and sort of have to rely on luck for the keys to feel right. I need to upgrade to an 88 note board anyways at some point, as even the PC3's keybed feels a little weak to me. Not sure how the PC3x's is though.

[HarryColin]

motorhead9999 was just following your comments and really agreed with what you said. Though just a beginner in learning piano but found some of those steps of technique very useful for me even. Will be looking forward for more such informative post!!