Mixer and monitors

[lezales]

OK guys here's my problem/question.

My screamer left the band a few weeks due to artistic reasons. He was the one owning the mixer and the monitors he and I were plugged into. So now I've got no way to amplify my sound. Now I'm looking forward to buy that myself to not depend on anyone else. But I've got no knowledge of that kind of equipment at all.

So my needs are the following:
-I don't need that many inputs, as I will be using two for my Left and Right, a third for the singer we'll find one day and one for my drummer's trigger. So I guess 8 inputs mixer would be quite enough.
-I need to have the monitors and the mixer to be able to amplify enough for the practices with the bands. I'm playing with a 300watts bass amp and a 250 watts Marshal Cab guitar amp.

So my questions are the following. Am I looking for a regular mixer or a powered one ? What should I look for in the specifications when looking for a mixer ? I'll probably buy used stuff and I'm able to spend ~1000$ on it, can I get something decent ? Should I get high wattage monitors or high wattage mixer ?

Thanks in advance. Any tips or indication on mixers and monitors will be grealty appreciated.

[lezales]

Ok guys I've found this mixer for 700$.

http://www.behringer.com/FR/Products/MX9000.aspx

Is it a good deal ? He's shipping freely also as he's living town next to me. Almost mint condition he's doing the installation too.

Next feedback quick.

[SoulFire]

I would buy the Yamaha Stagepas 300 or 500

I use the 300 regularly for vocals/keys and it's portability is fantastic. Powered mixer with 300 watt speakers, great quality, sturdy, and great price. They're around $900 AUD so you should probably be able to get them cheaper :)

[Gustavo]

I dont trust much in behringer, as they do budget stuff.

I think you´re better off getting either any Mackie from the VLZ3 line (the 802 or 1602) http://www.mackie.com/products/mixers/index.html I haven´t heard anyone complaining about them

Also people like the Yamaha MG line.

Just Saying

[sparkey]

Yamaha MG is always a great option go with that

Alternatively again, Mackie, but they are a bit pricey

behringer, make some amazing stuff like my midi controller, how its not dead and broken after 3 years of the abuse its been put through with me, its amazing
and this 4 channel headphone amp, cant beat it for price and usability

But when it comes to behringer for your actual sound i try and avoid it when possible, although they have made a pair of good studio monitors for the price range i believe, but i got some KRK's so im content

[sparkey]

and as far as speakers/stage monitors for hearing yourself

Ask what size monitors your ex band member had in the first place, because if you could hear yourself with them, thats the size you want, alternatively, if it was a big struggle, try and get ones a tad bit bigger

[Omega Monkey]

That mixer is completely wrong for what you want. You basically have 2 choices.

1) You get a regular mixer (without a power amp section) and then get a pair of powered speakers. This can be very convenient because you can have a small mixer next to your keyboard setup, and then just run regular instrument cables to the 2 speakers (which will also need to be plugged into an electrical outlet). The downside is the speakers are going to be a bit heavier.

2) You get a "PA head" (ie a powered mixer) and 2 passive speakers. This will most likely give you less options in terms of placement (unless you're ok with really long speaker cable runs, and buying those really long speaker cables). So you might be able to put the mixer/head by your keys and make adjustments on the fly as easily. Lower end PA heads are also not as likely to be stereo. The passive speakers will be lighter (and cheaper), and you might also have more options in what you can get.

So you should have a look at what's available in your area, and figure out what will meet your needs best. I'd say for a typical rock band practice PA, considering you're running your keys through it as well as vocals, you should be looking for:

300-500 watts of power (ie 150-250 for each side in stereo)
8-12 channels (even if you don't think you need them, it's also good to have maybe 4 XLR inputs with mic pres)
2 15" 2 or 3 way speaker cabinets

Speaker stands are also very helpful for getting the sound where you need it.

[lezales]

Well the console has been "bought", we didn't give the money yet and don't have the money yet but have an appointment for tomorrow. Should I cancel as it's REALLY not what we need ?

[Gustavo]

I agree with Omega Monkey, that console is definitely NOT what you need. I would not spend my money on that.

I would in your place, get a Mackie 1202-VLZ3 (http://www.mackie.com/products/1202vlz3/index.html). It may not be the cheapest but it´s one of the best mixers around, with great micpre´s.

That coupled with some powered monitors. There are plenty around, but I do not know much about this area.

[lezales]

Edit: I've got a Mackie like you've proposed Gustavo !

Now I'm looking for monitors. Any suggestions of models ? How much Watts should I be looking for as my mixer is not a powered one.

[Gustavo]

Edit: I've got a Mackie like you've proposed Gustavo !

Now I'm looking for monitors. Any suggestions of models ? How much Watts should I be looking for as my mixer is not a powered one.

Trust me you will NOT regret this even in many years. I´ve tried behringer, alesis and even seen some peavy mixers. And in my opinion nothing comes even close.

Unfortunately I do not have any experience in the powered amps section, but I believe this could help:http://www.sweetwater.com/shop/live-sound/monitors/buying-guide.php
http://www.sweetwater.com/shop/keyboards/keyboard-amplifiers/buying-guide.php

[Maximus]

EHEM......

May i recomend the QSC K series

http://jordanrudess.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12171

Evaluating options before i bought mine

http://jordanrudess.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12102

these are very good

http://www.electrovoice.com/product.php?id=211


Nowadays these are worth a look

http://www.electrovoice.com/product.php?id=526

And when there avaliable
http://www.electrovoice.com/product.php?id=1066 EV's are pretty kick ass

and the new namm yamahas 1300 MF watts...

http://usa.yamaha.com/products/live_sound/speakers/active_speakers/dsr_series/dsr112/?mode=model

[Gustavo]

EHEM......

May i recomend the QSC K series

http://jordanrudess.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12171

Evaluating options before i bought mine

http://jordanrudess.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12102



Man, I feel like such a noob for not referencing to this forum :frown: What whight lightning says is also true (second link second post) it may not be justified to buy a superb monitoring system, as only the band will hear it. Perhaps any "decent" monitor that is pole mountable (or that is easy to put in a stand) will do the trick rather nicely. SO I´d say this time dont chose mackie :P

[Maximus]

Edit: I've got a Mackie like you've proposed Gustavo !

Now I'm looking for monitors. Any suggestions of models ? How much Watts should I be looking for as my mixer is not a powered one.

Saved........ a mackie or a Yamaha MG (Keyboardist choice worldwide) is what you needed

[lezales]

Thanks for the help guys.

So I'm grabbing the mixer tomorrow and now I'm shopping for the speakers. The stuff that you gave links for Maximus are indeed awesome speakers giving incredible watt power. But unfortunatly they're a bit over my needs.

I mostly need stuff for our practice local as at my level the place where I play always provide the amplification.

What we had before were 250W non-powered Speakers. So I'd say that 250-400W would be waaaay enough for my needs. Are Watts numbers the same for powered and non-powered speakers ?

[Omega Monkey]

So you already bought the Mackie like instantly of it being casually suggested, but you still had to ask about that monstrous Behringer mixer?

Doesn't anybody THINK about gear purchases any more before they make them?

The Mackie should be a good choice, but it's extremely beneficial to do some research on your own about this kind of stuff, because ultimately that is what is going to allow you to make wise gear decisions on your own eventually.

As far as power ratings, there are 2 power ratings to be concerned with. You have the amplifier output rating (make sure it's in watts RMS, "peak" watts are basically meaningless), and you have the speaker power handling rating (also in watts RMS). RMS means root mean squared, which you don't really have to know, but basically it means the consistent, clean power output or handling.

So if you have an amp that is 200W and speakers that are 200W, everything should be fine unless you drive the amp REALLY hard. The idea is to only use about 1/4 to 1/2 of an amp's power consistently, to have the rest in reserve for transients (drum hits, low bass notes, and things like that).

The amp power doesn't have to be as high as the speaker handling. If you had a 200W amp with 500W speakers, that would work just great. But if you had a 50W amp with 500W speakers, you probably would not have enough power to get loud enough.

You also don't necessarily have to have speakers that are rated as high as your amp, as long as you keep the amp within reasonable levels for what the speakers can handle.

With good quality powered speakers (like JBL, Mackie, QSC, etc...), they should be designed so that the powere amp is "matched" to the speakers, so the speakers will probably have equal or greater power handling as the amp can put out (huh huh... you said "put out").

Also, keep in mind it's always better to have more power than you think you might need. Basically that will translate into cleaner, better sound.

[lezales]

I see. Today I went to shop for speakers. I've seen a few interesting models, about 500$ per speaker for 250watts ones (powered of course). I'm going to keep looking for other options. I'll also check used and stuff on internet.

We tried the Mackie console and it's wonder. But now I have to get my own speakers !

[Gustavo]

So you already bought the Mackie like instantly of it being casually suggested, but you still had to ask about that monstrous Behringer mixer?

Doesn't anybody THINK about gear purchases any more before they make them?

The Mackie should be a good choice, but it's extremely beneficial to do some research on your own about this kind of stuff, because ultimately that is what is going to allow you to make wise gear decisions on your own eventually.


We tried the Mackie console and it's wonder. But now I have to get my own speakers !

At least he tried it out :redface: that´s quite as good as research might go. Plus now a days you can just compare specs in a matter of minutes, and read tons of reviews in an hour. Its a wonderful world in wich you can make informed (or at least not stupid) decisions with just two hours of preparation :wink:

But I understand your point, everyone should at least look at reviews on other sites besides just taking a fellow member´s word :rolleyes: good thing this was about Mackie and not some crappy produt built of plastic with plasticy performance

Now lezales you set yourself to buy some monitors and stands for them, preferably in that order! you should just take something you know sounds good and run them through the PAs, that or bring a guitarrist to test them monitors

and +1 on OM´s comments besides the quoted part :wink:

Also, keep in mind powered monitors are not cheap! they are like buying an amp and a speaker in one box. but you also keep in mind that while stereo is ideal, you could start with just 1 monitor and eventually get the second. Just chose a model that is relatively new so that eventually you have the pair.

[lezales]

Yeah I read alot about that console as the buy was urgent. As for the monitors, I'm kind of checking somes on the internet in the 250-400W range.

I'm don't buy on internet too often. Is there good place to buy that stuff from, place to avoid ? Right now I'm checking Ebay and such.

A local dealer showed me some nice ones today I'll get the model and ask you about it later.

[jkwheel]

I just recently bought the MG82cx and Two MSR 400s (400 watts each) and they are working great! there are a few other models of MSR's that are less power and cheaper. I bought the rig uincluding a Gator case and cables for under 1300.00 USD. You might be able to swing some options on this set up to make if affordable.

[Maximus]

I just recently bought the MG82cx and Two MSR 400s

Those are pretty solid, i've got the same mixer and the MSR's are tough, perhaps just a little heavy.

[jkwheel]

Those are pretty solid, i've got the same mixer and the MSR's are tough, perhaps just a little heavy.

Yeah I used to use the Peavey KB5 so at least now my "heavy" sounds good.

[lezales]

Hey guys, new stuff. As you all know I've bought a Mackie console a month and a half ago. During that time I've looked for good amplified speakers and I've found a pair of Yamaha MSR400 in top-notch condition (what he says) for 900 CAN$.

I'm not experienced in speakers and I was just wondering, of course I'll be testing the speakers with a mixer and I'll plug my iPod in to try them. But what else should I do/check to be sure of the condition of the speakers ?

[SoulFire]

An iPod isn't at line level so I'd reccomend you try running something a little more srs bsns through them. Try it with a keyboard or mic.