For any keyboardists out there with a band....

[EdKeys]

I dont want this to sound weird, its just that I have a problem and I would like to know if anyone else out there feels like me.

I have a prog rock/metal band. I really enjoy all of my writting sessions as well as performing and everything else, but ive always had this weird feeling to be left out, and AM NOT, I mean my group has always supported me in many ways, its just that u know the guitar get all this attention, the drums as well and i mean the bass NEEDS to be there so I just get the feeling that sometimes keyboards are more of like an extra "cool thing" but its always extra, i really dont know how to put my feelings into words I would like to know if anyone has ever had this feeling....

[MarkDTMMZ]

I was in a piano/bass/drums rock band for years...and I've heard every piano in a rock band joke that there is. We have a guitar player now, and the keys are definatly not the "balls" instrument, but helps fill out the sound under the piano. I understand my role in each song, and enjoy working within that role.
The keyboard player can easily turn into the underapreciated member of the band, but if you and your bandmates are good musicians with good ears, they realize how importnat the keys are to the make up of your band. They serve a purpose just like every other instrument does. If you feel like you're being slided speak up to your bandmates, and express this to them.

Mark
www.mmzband.com

"I Thought I was joining this bad ass rock and roll band.....So what's with the Piano?" -Matt Sorum, GNR/Velvet Revolver

[MarkDTMMZ]

I meant to say the guitar fills out the sound under the piano. =)

Mark
www.mmzband.com

[WoofWoofX]

Hello there...ummm ....been there done that,
Well to tell you the truth, Keys are really important in the band even though some guitarist wouldn't like it... for the Rock... they're like Women " can't live with them...and can't live without them"
and in most of the times K/Bists feel like alienated from the scene...
So here's my two cents for you...

If you keep on filling the gaps (with pads and organs...) you will be the one holding everything together without anyone noticing it but other KBists and good musician... the good part is that your band is supportive and they don't tell you lower the volume each time they here you :wink:

Now the whole thing is related to your experience... if you play cover songs (that doesn't include a main KB line) try to create Intros with complex sounds and arpegiators ...where you can be alone to create that "what the hell is it.." feeling and try to change the sounds everyonce in a while... since there's nothing more borring like having the same sounds played in all songs...

I call it the Unholly trinity...Strings, Hammond...and Piano... if you are stuck with these your playing will be an ambient noise that is there but you want feel it untill it stops...

Now If you are writing your own... try to be smooth in getting the KB part as interresting as possible and also it is important ...that you layer sounds and let them hear that it is not only a piano is playing... and work on effects as mutch as you can so you can drop interresting stuff during the show... and last...this worked for me....really BIG Time...
Children music...and very well know anthems like commercial advert hooks... when it is really calm and everyone is waiting on stage for the second act (In Pubs and not Concerts)... start something like a medley...e.g itsibitsispider..twinkle twinkle...flinstones...Popey...etc and make everyone sing you should the omost smiling guy on stage and the only "Clown" in a positive way... Guitarist (in majority) are realy stiff and try to give this "I am the hero" kinda look... so distribute smiles for free....

That's It

Enjoy it
WoofWoofX

[aryo_a]

ok...ok... i know your feeling, i'm a keyboardist in an alternative band (we make songs like hoobastank, sum 41) and you know what they want? they just want me to play block chords in each song! :evil: and, yes, i feel it too, the keyboardist isn't a important member, "it's good to have a keyboard player, but it's not that important.". so when we make some new song, i try to experiment in many ways, i play soft lead, weird pads, and they love it, it's make "a different taste" to it, so keyboard is important.... it's just how you play this thing....

WoofWoofX : nice idea! i want to play mario theme :wink:

[ktriton]

Can't say the same. In my band, if I were to leave it'd all fall apart. And I'm not trying to show off or display an egocentric machismo or anything, here.

It's just that you have to force yourself to be a vital part of the compositions. Don't let the band give you background and filler parts ONLY. Take an offensive, pro-active approach to your music and try to elaborate on as many dimension of the song is possible (and appropriate--there are going to be some songs where simplistic and 'in-the-background' are a must).

This is not to say that you should wank off at every twist and turn, but use some musical integrity to take more a vital role in your band's songs.

[Taurus]

My answer is simple: come up with a killerpatch that EVERYBODY likes, not just keyboardists..
Come up with some things that are 'typically you'.
Do weird cool stuff, like double the bassplayer with some acid 303 patch or smth in some parts. Parts that make ppl go like 'oohh... groovy......!!'

Do something that stands out, and that only -you- as a keyboardist can do.

[Taurus]

Also realize that you AND the guitarist probably will have most musical knowledge when it comes to harmony.

Dare to speak for yourself and arrange riffs togheter with your guitarist or something. Try to be a leader-type.

[Shreddy]

Do like Frank Lucas (Over the Edge) and start a band where the keyboardist is the main guy. With that said he lets the drummer and bassist play balls out too.

The band that I just left was the guitarists band. When we played live I put my board at the front of the stage and made sure that I was seen and paid attention to. When playing I really get into it, low stance, head banging, exaggerated hand movements, extra slides (glissado), I also was trading solos with the guitarist and had a couple keyboard intros for songs.

ed

[lighthouse]

I think I`m the only one that haven`t had that problem......keyboardists in metal or rock qorund here are so few. that we`re like the strange exotic thing so everyone is always paying attention to the keyboard player!

Lucky me i guess!!, jajaj

Cheers
Juan Pablo

[ChrisMcCoy]

I've been doing the band gig thing for close to 20 years. Here's my 2 cents. My range of experience with bands goes like this: I've played in bands that put me in the front of things in the mix, and I've played in bands that literally buried me so deep in the mix that Audience members would come up to me on breaks and tell me they could see some cool stuff happening up there, but couldn't hear a note I was playing. If I were in your shoes, I'd do one of 2 things.

A: Discuss with your band members what your take is on the situation that's happening with your keyboard playing in relation to what's going on with your group, what you would like to see happen and what should happen.
B: Give your notice, and look for another gig that suits your interests and make sure that when you agree to sign on, that all members of the group are well aware of your goals as a keyboardist.

I personally take the high road on joining a band. My preference is to work freelance and just play and get paid. That way there's no hard feelings. I think of it this way. The band who hires me gets what they pay for. If they chose not to turn me up in the mix or utilize me properly, that's what they are paying for. No skin off my back.

I hope this info is useful. Please feel free to contact me offline if you need any advice on live performance.
Chris

[EdKeys]

thanks everyone this is really helping me. I mean after seeing all of this different opions i ahve a clearer view of stuff. On one side its not that am not apreciated in my group, cause i am, its of what i feel towards rock in general when it comes to keyboards... anywas ill take much of this tips and really use them... thanks

[hyeok]

My band used to have 3 keyboardists. 3! The reason was we first formed to cover Funeral for a Friend. Which, I suppose, could still do with only one keyboard, but the original song had 3 key parts. So anyways, one of the keyboardists has quit now, and we have another guitar player now. So we have 2 guitarists, 2 keyboardists, 1 bassist, 1 drummer, and an electric violin player. I've always felt that all of us have about equal parts. Not in everysong of course, but the different types of songs balance out. And since we're playing rock, I think the guitar sound SHOULD be the loudest and the most predominent.

[ChrisMcCoy]

And since we're playing rock, I think the guitar sound SHOULD be the loudest and the most predominent.

Does that mean you want the guitar louder than the singer ?
I've never worked with a sound man willling to make that happen :)

[hyeok]

And since we're playing rock, I think the guitar sound SHOULD be the loudest and the most predominent.

Does that mean you want the guitar louder than the singer ?
I've never worked with a sound man willling to make that happen :)

Well of course not! :lol: But as you can tell from the line up of our band, we don't really have an official singer. Everyone just kidna does it once in a while.

[Liquid Shadow]

I'm in two bands...

A prog rock band, which is run by me and the guitarist. Our music is very keyboard oriented, and the fact that the two of us write everything means I =/= underappreciated.

I'm also the keyboardist and now the singer (after some crap with the girl who was going to sing for us) in a prog/power metal band. I write about 90% of the stuff for that, and all the music is very keyboard oriented (even the stuff that I don't write). When the guys started the band they wanted to have a lot of keyboard work, and I knew one of the guys in there and he asked me and now I'm the main songwriter, keyboardist, and singer...interesting how that worked out :lol:

[ktriton]

its of what i feel towards rock in general when it comes to keyboards

:?

::Points to DT::

[Harmonic Paradigm]

See with me its alot different. I am one of the main guys in the band, and its not because I can play a cool tune on a keyboard. I am the creative one. This sometimes bothers me, but I see to be the one with all the ideas, lyrics and stuff. I literally mesh everything together. The compositional Leader so to speak. You see without me, they would just die...and come up with more crappy songs like "Hung Like A Horse" yes, its that bad sometimes. You see, when I came in... they went from joke to real music. I showed them that not everything has to be funny, lol, its ok to be serious. Slap in a few keyboard intros...and we were on are way.. lol, I guess you just have to show them that you have talent too, lol. You arent left out, I used to feel the same, lol... but I know my place, and they know theirs...

Feeding The Wheel
-Ryan

[WoofWoofX]

The compositional Leader so to speak

The way I see it ... Keyboard and Synth Players tend to be more open in perspectives to create and orchestrate and even operate the Mixer, than Guitarists...maybe due to the wide selection of sounds and the nature of workstation that We can slam some spontaneous good ideas in the composition, and still sit in the back of the stage sometimes...
But it is more or less Like "PINKY and THE BRAIN" :lol: 8) :lol:

//WoofWoofX