Mallet player looking to learn piano

[beaverteeth92]

Hey. I happen to be a mallet player in my high school's percussion section (marimba, xylophone, vibraphone, etc.), and have very little trouble with 4-mallet technique. I have intricate knowledge of chords, and can play all major scales, minor scales (all three types), and arpeggios (major, minor, diminished, and augmented). I tend to be very well-versed in music theory, and can also drum (so it sort of helps with independence, but not much). My hands can stretch to about a ninth even though they've very small, with a 10th being a huge pain. I tend to have weird fingers...

I apologize if it sounds like I'm bragging, but I really don't think I'll have much trouble learning piano.

I just have a few questions.


1. What are standard fingerings for scales and chords? And what about for long note runs? Is crossing fingers over (like finger 2 over finger 1) normal for soloing? Or is it better to use all my fingers, then move my wrist over to the new set of keys being played?
2. What is the best way to strengthen fingers 4 and 5?
3. Any advice for building finger and hand independence? I can play chords with one hand and try and solo with the other, but I can't play single-note lines in both hands at the same time
4. What important technical things are there that really make a difference on playing technique and capabilities in the long run?
5. When attempting to improvise, it's been almost impossible to play octaves with one hand without screwing up the finger interval. Any ideas for keeping intervals even?

Thanks so much. I really appreciate it.

[Bigs]

For 1, 2 and 3 the JROC has great instructions and I think for 4 too. Number 5 is just a matter of practice I think. So the JROC might be a useful resource for you. I personally think it was well worth the small investment. There's some preview material on jroc.us (http://www.jroc.us/).

[beaverteeth92]

I would, but unfortunately, I don't own a piano. I just use the piano at my school to attempt to improvise. I can sort of figure out some jazz here and there due to playing 7th chords and I-IV-V progressions.

[PinkFloydDudi]

Playing any instrument takes practice. Not sure what you are looking for in terms of answers if you are unable to practice them.

JR has his conservatory, which I too signed up for. There are videos and exercises that actually don't even require the use of a piano. I do one in particular at my desk while at work ALL the time that helps with finger and hand independence.

There is also a book "Hanon Exercises" (hopefully I spelled that correctly). It is about $20 and has 60 exercises that goes over all sorts of things you are asking about.

[Bigs]

I don't think Hanon is an option if you don't have a lot of access to a piano. There are more fun ways to study if you only have a few hours each week :biggrin: It's true what you say, you won't improve with lots of pratice (especially for points 2, 3 and 4).


Also, check out the free pianofundamentals (http://pianofundamentals.com/) e-Book. Although there is a small amount dispute of some of the authors claims, I generally find it a very good guide.

[Grey Loki]

5. When attempting to improvise, it's been almost impossible to play octaves with one hand without screwing up the finger interval. Any ideas for keeping intervals even?

Thanks so much. I really appreciate it.

I used to do that all the time - I just kept practicing until I had the 'shape' of an octave division in the muscle memory of both hands. Now I can put my hands into the correct shape, even without having a piano under my fingers - it's all about the practice.

I'll third (or fourth, or whatever) the suggestions to take out a (one-off payment) 'subscription' to JR's OC - it's a brilliant resource, I think especially for someone in your position.

[PinkFloydDudi]

I don't think Hanon is an option if you don't have a lot of access to a piano. There are more fun ways to study if you only have a few hours each week :biggrin: It's true what you say, you won't improve with lots of pratice (especially for points 2, 3 and 4).




You are actually able to do Hanon exercises on your desk at work just to mostly get your fingers moving.

I actually got an image of a piano octave and printed 2 of them. While I'm not exactly pushing the keys down, I do get to practice moving certain fingers even on my desk. Those exercises are all about knowing where to move your fingers, not so much the actual sound that is produced.

While it certainly is not the same as being on a piano, its at least something I can do while sitting at my desk at work that helps build finger movement, independence, and hand independence. Also allows you to know what you are supposed to do for each exercise. Memorize the movements that way when you sit down, you can very quickly get the exercise down
=)

[Bigs]

You are actually able to do Hanon exercises on your desk at work just to mostly get your fingers moving.

I actually got an image of a piano octave and printed 2 of them. While I'm not exactly pushing the keys down, I do get to practice moving certain fingers even on my desk. Those exercises are all about knowing where to move your fingers, not so much the actual sound that is produced.

While it certainly is not the same as being on a piano, its at least something I can do while sitting at my desk at work that helps build finger movement, independence, and hand independence. Also allows you to know what you are supposed to do for each exercise. Memorize the movements that way when you sit down, you can very quickly get the exercise down
=)

Heh, yeah I do various JR excersises on my desk, too. But I do like the audible feedback every now and then.. also helps avoiding learning mistakes (or useless moves). The best way to practice piano will always be.. on the piano :)

[PinkFloydDudi]

Heh, yeah I do various JR excersises on my desk, too. But I do like the audible feedback every now and then.. also helps avoiding learning mistakes (or useless moves). The best way to practice piano will always be.. on the piano :)

Oh absolutely. But better to do some form of practice than not to practice at all!!!

[beaverteeth92]

Thanks so much. I hear Hanon can reinforce bad habits though, and I really don't want to risk learning with bad technique. I can play octaves with one hand, but really slowly and in short intervals. Like if it's fairly long distances (like the intro to Journey's Don't Stop Believing in the left hand), then my hand gets screwed up/

[PinkFloydDudi]

I've yet to hear the negative impacts you are referring to with Hanon. What bad techniques? (Need to know so I don't fall into them!)

All i"ve seen is people preach about how great the lessons are.

[Bigs]

I've yet to hear the negative impacts you are referring to with Hanon. What bad techniques? (Need to know so I don't fall into them!)

All i"ve seen is people preach about how great the lessons are.

Check out http://www.pianofundamentals.com/book/en/1.III.7.8

[PinkFloydDudi]

Wow interesting (thanks for the link).

I tend to agree and disagree with him throughout his rant. He even states himself that there is technique to be learned with Hanon's exercises. Things such as moving your 2nd finger to a different note in the first exercise, which helps get your fingers used to moving apart.

I do 100% agree with him about the HT thing. Part of the reason I got the book was to hopefully further develop my speed AND finger/hand independence. Well speed it seems to be helping a bit. Finger it helps a bit as well...but hand independence is horrible on that. What I have done at times is start on octaves further out and do the opposite that it tells me for one of the hands.

In summation, I feel like he does a great job bringing up the negative parts of the exercises, but ignores some of the benefits of them.

I don't see it teach BAD technique as much as it may not teach as much variety as say playing a Bach piece.

Anyone know JR's comments on Hanon? Good/Bad?

[Bigs]

Well, I should note that the author of the above mentioned book is not really an authority AFAIK. He does cite many authoritative works, but there's a lot of his own opinions in there and I can't seem to find many sources that confirm those. There are some really good points in there though (including the HS/HT stuff which really works for me).