Jordan not using a Kurzweil anymore???

[Human Machine]

I read this in another post but I thought it deserved it's own thread. Is this true? Jordan is going with the Korg Triton Extreme for the next tour:?: I'm guessing he'll still be using the Kurzweil rack seeing as most of his signature sounds are Kurzweil sounds. How did this come about? Is Kurzweil not sponsoring him anymore? Does anyone know the story or if Jordan reads this, is there a particular reason for this move?

[King_Ellesar]

i have researched the korg triton extreme for a while and i now finally have one of my own and it is in my opinion easy to see why he would change, if in fact he is. im not an authority on synthesizers or JR's relationship with kurzweil, but i doubt that he has changed because they are not "sponsoring" him anymore. i dont think he was even 'sponsored' by them, but im not sure. from what ive heard and from the little experience i have had with a kurzweil synth, it seems like the korg is a great deal easier to work with. ive heard many complain on how complicated the kurzweil system for programming sounds can be and have heard a lot that korg is one of the most user-friendly synths out there. the extreme does have some really cool features, and im sure with the MOSS expansion boards installed, it might be able to match up to the high and mighty kurz. if JR can get the same sounds, or maybe even better sounds on the korg, and at the same time, getting them quicker and more convieniently, then why wouldnt he change? it would make a few things quite easier. also, think of how long he has had the kurz (well not the same exact one obviously, but working with a kurz). maybe he just wanted a change. but id have to say, i would miss that huge ribbon for soloing, i always thought that was so cool. but the extreme is blue, and it looks so cool in the dark with the light from the screen and the tube, so...KORG wins!

[Awake]

Question: although Kurzweil sell the ribbon as a stand-alone add-on, and I won't dispute the easiness of programming a Korg vs a Kurz (I have no idea, truthfully), wouldn't the main obstacle to migrating from Kurz to Korg be Jordan's extensive use of setups in a live setting? I was under the impression that only Kurz will let you do that, create a long list of various setups and cycle through them with pedal clicks.

[TritonuS]

Question: although Kurzweil sell the ribbon as a stand-alone add-on, and I won't dispute the easiness of programming a Korg vs a Kurz (I have no idea, truthfully), wouldn't the main obstacle to migrating from Kurz to Korg be Jordan's extensive use of setups in a live setting? I was under the impression that only Kurz will let you do that, create a long list of various setups and cycle through them with pedal clicks.

You can stack programs into combinations with the Korg and save them in the desired order, and then cycle through them with a pedal.

Maybe the usb-interfaces of the Extreme makes it easier/quicker to upload sounds than with the kurz? I don't know. And I've never played a fully weighted kurz but maybe he likes the key action of the korg better? Dunno.

[koma666]

In Italy someone asked Jordan about his new Korg Triton Extreme while i was standing next to him( :D ).
He said that he will use the Triton Extreme. Then he mentioned that the support from Kurzweil is very bad!

should be clear now

koma
........
:twisted: :twisted:

[WoofWoofX]

That sounds bad...
I don't think the Extreme has the versatility in control that the Kurz has, it is far easier for programing... but you can't get as complex as the k...
IMHO there are too many artists endorsing or sponsored by Korg while Kurzweil is way behind and that might explain it Then he mentioned that the support from Kurzweil is very bad!
, even though I still beleive that K programming and quality will blow thw Korg to dust...
Anyway I have both (not the extrem though) and the support on Korg is far better...(sent an e-mail to Kurzsupport about 4 month ago...still no reply not even a "sorry we can't support" message)

Hope we still have the best of quality and the Korg will cope with Jordan's creativity after all it has been ages he's worked with Kurzweil...BUT ISN'T HE THE GENIUS BEHIND "THE WHEEL"...

//WoofWoofX

[Semmi78]

That sounds bad...
I don't think the Extreme has the versatility in control that the Kurz has, it is far easier for programing... but you can't get as complex as the k...
IMHO there are too many artists endorsing or sponsored by Korg while Kurzweil is way behind and that might explain it

I am sorry, but I dont understand why a synth HAS to be complex to be a great instrument? I read it overytime in here when there is a battle between Korg-Kurzweil.
The main advantage of Korg is that they are user-friendly and someone doesn´t need to program for days/weeks to get what they want.

I would not get my fingers burn on a synth that needs programlogic to get the best out of it. Ok, mabe it´s a challenge, but not mine.

[WoofWoofX]

Hi Semmi,
When I mentioned Programming and Complexity I didn't mean that ..
The Complexity OF programing... Rather than the complexity of the program i.e PCG in Korgs language... AKA Patch in Synth language.

The multi layerd sounding of VAST along with KDFX architecture is way ahaead MOSS programing and that only IMHO (I don't know if anyone will share the opinion)

I know what takes 20mn on a Kurzweil...will be a 5mn tops on a KORG butwhen it gets to controling terms you get too many sliders pedals wheels and ribons to do and trigger what ever you want at any time you want.

Now if anyone is using Extreme...do you know if when changing patches you get a cut in the sound due to effects.... or not (since trinity and tirton suffer also)

Sorry if this issue has changed to a different thing but Kurzweil Lost in this battle if Jordan has moved to Korg.

//WoofWoofX

[Semmi78]

Thanx for clarification :D
Well, it was just a reaction based on the things I read sometimes in here, not specifically to you. Every instrument has it´s weakness. For Kurzweil it is the price (otherwise I already had one) and the complexity, fo Korg it is the slow processor ( in some cases, not the Extreme), problems when changing programs, tweakoptions and the pianos. Enough now! :wink:

Maybe the deal with Korg is just better. Why stay with a company that cannot provide one with the things/services you want/need to use? Well, I don´t know what the exact reason is, IF it is true, but this might be a good theory. :roll: :wink:

[maJ estY]

Human Machine:
You wrote that you have read that Jordan would use the Extreme from now on in another thread. Could you please give us the link to this thread or tell us who wrote that?

To be honest, I think that I would be one of the first persons who would know that he would change his Kurzweil for a Korg.
I am actually 100% sure that he did not change and this is only a rumour!!! I won't believe that before salty, another mod, Dani or Jordan himself posts this here!

I attended his clinic in January and he also talked much about Kurzweil and other keyboards. There are different things that Jordan demands of his main keyboard. The most important thing is that a sound does not disappear or change when you play a note and switch to another sound.
I doubt that the Extreme offers this feature, because actually no other manufacture beside Kurzweil offers this.
Furthermore, where would he have his ribbon controller?

Let me tell you something else: This is something which has nothing to do with sponsoring! We're talking about Jordan's main keyboard - that means it does not matter if Kurzweil or Korg sponsors him, he would only take the very BEST!

He might use sounds from the Extreme, but not the keyboard itself as main keyboard, because concerning controlling, the K2600 is waaaaaaayys better than the Extreme.

[King_Ellesar]

Human Machine:
You wrote that you have read that Jordan would use the Extreme from now on in another thread. Could you please give us the link to this thread or tell us who wrote that?

To be honest, I think that I would be one of the first persons who would know that he would change his Kurzweil for a Korg.
I am actually 100% sure that he did not change and this is only a rumour!!! I won't believe that before salty, another mod, Dani or Jordan himself posts this here!

I attended his clinic in January and he also talked much about Kurzweil and other keyboards. There are different things that Jordan demands of his main keyboard. The most important thing is that a sound does not disappear or change when you play a note and switch to another sound.
I doubt that the Extreme offers this feature, because actually no other manufacture beside Kurzweil offers this.
Furthermore, where would he have his ribbon controller?

Let me tell you something else: This is something which has nothing to do with sponsoring! We're talking about Jordan's main keyboard - that means it does not matter if Kurzweil or Korg sponsors him, he would only take the very BEST!

He might use sounds from the Extreme, but not the keyboard itself as main keyboard, because concerning controlling, the K2600 is waaaaaaayys better than the Extreme.

http://www.jordanrudess.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=2883&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

check that out. towards the end, people say their thoughts about it all. there are some pics too of him using it at the keyfest in italy. the word is that he has changed, but you can decide for yourself.

[Scrap]

Human Machine:
The most important thing is that a sound does not disappear or change when you play a note and switch to another sound.
I doubt that the Extreme offers this feature, because actually no other manufacture beside Kurzweil offers this.
Furthermore, where would he have his ribbon controller?

'Seamless' patch changing only happens on the Kurzweil when you do not load up a new KDFX studio or effects setup. If you switch a KDFX effect, via studio swapping, from something as extreme as reverb to distortion, the change becomes very obvious. This is the same as how it works on the Triton on the latest OS versions. On the Triton, if you flip to a new program with completely identical effects settings while holding down the sustain pedal, you can indeed seamlessly change patches. You can also enable/disable different layers in combi mode using AMS - I've written enough tutorials and posted enough sound clips to prove this.

The flexibility of KDFX and Korg effects is as such that you can set up many different routings of multiple effects and turn them on/off via switches and pedals at any time without any output cutoff as long as you stay within the current 'studio', in Setup mode and Combi mode, respectively.

Regarding the ribbon, the Triton has a small ribbon right below the joystick. Jordan uses the ribbon a handful of times, maybe less, in a typical DT concert setting. So this is really a trivial bit of control.

Gotta go where the money, and future is...

Hi Semmi,
The multi layerd sounding of VAST along with KDFX architecture is way ahaead MOSS programing and that only IMHO (I don't know if anyone will share the opinion)
//WoofWoofX

The K2500/K2600 series cannot do physical acoustic instrument modeling, does not have complete Virtual Analog facilities, nor sensibly programmable FM synthesis. The MOSS board, while having limited polyphony, has all of this. The sound-shaping ability of VAST and its ability to change signal path routings, while unique and special, has its limitations, as does Korg's stuff. Gotta work with your strengths. End of story.

(And doesn't this all belong in Gear Talk? :P)

[Enigma™]

Kurzweil this, Korg that. Who CARES?

If JR used a Korg Triton Extreme in a Kurzweil shell, I bet you all 100% that you'd NEVER KNOW THE DIFFERENCE.
JR's THAT good at programming both synths that the sounds coming out are going to still as good as they've always been.

With regards to the Ribbon - Ever heard of the expressionmate?

I guess some people are just mad because "If JR uses it, it must be the best, and Korg sucks" and this has been the mentality for some time now. Hell, I was even like that for a while and then you know what? I got myself a Triton and I love the thing.
Basically what it comes down to is that Yes - The Kurzweil is great and amazing, but so is the Triton Extreme. It's just DIFFERENT and that's something people are going to have to get used to.
I'm not going to sell my 2500 because JR has an Extreme now, but hell, it'll make things that much more interesting and challenging to make those sounds on my Kurzweil now too.

With all these Korg Racks that are kicking around in the past 2 albums, it makes me wonder how many of these sounds are ACTUALLY still Kurzweil sounds?

Anyone notice the transition? New Lead sound *not on the Kurzweil anymore or if it is, it's easily portable to another synth* or what about other samples? Recordscratching? what about some of those strings.

C'mon there folks. I don't care what JR uses... It doesn't mess with his ability to make great sounds or great music. If that's what he wants to do, then accept the change. Whatever.

BTW: I'm going to leave this here: This seems to be less of a "gear talk" thread and more of a "OMG JR IS TEH CHANRGNE TEH KEYOVBORD!!!!" Thread. I'd like to see where this goes and also see if JR will confirm or deny any of this.

BTW: Majesty - Do you HONESTLY believe that you have any "inside" information as to what JR's going to do? Because if what you're saying was true, then we'd have nothing to worry about, but it DOES seem however that JR has been using a LOT of Korg stuff lately, doesn't it?

If he weren't changing, why would he spend SO MUCH TIME programming the Extreme...

Just something to think about maybe...

[St0rMl0rD]

I personally support Jordan, since K2600x is really out of date, and Triton Extreme includes many more useful functions than Kurzweil...

I believe Jordan is gonna be even a better player with his new

KORG TRITON EXTREME!!!

Rock on Jordan!!! :twisted:

[Liquid Shadow]

Everybody read Dave's post, and read it well. Hell, read it 25 times if you need to, but do not stop until you understand every word that he said, because some of you really need that...

[merijn]

I personally support Jordan, since K2600x is really out of date, and Triton Extreme includes many more useful functions than Kurzweil...

I believe Jordan is gonna be even a better player with his new

KORG TRITON EXTREME!!!

Rock on Jordan!!! :twisted:

OMG, You have won the Bullshit award! Every sentence is wrong! What happened to the senseble Stormlord? The Extreme is nothing special. Jordan has his reasons to swap, fai enough. But that DOENS'T say that the extreme is better, in fact Kurzweil will always rule! High pricing is the cause of the bad profits in Kurzweil company. Out of date? Not really. You see, in synthesizers you're not THAT depandent of date. I know a guy who could rock a Casio, from 1990. His name is Dave! And yes, Dave you are right! Who cares, it's a keyboard! It isn't even something new, because he already used triton racks. And he went to the Extreme aswell for the cash, ofcourse!

Ohw! And for Jan, take a look at Keyfest Pictures! Enough evidence?

[Awake]

Anyone notice the transition? New Lead sound *not on the Kurzweil anymore or if it is, it's easily portable to another synth* or what about other samples? Recordscratching? what about some of those strings. OT: personally, I loved his LTE lead sound (and, for that matters, the LTE solos, heh); I kinda like the Wakeman-style lead used in Solitary Shell, but I didn't like the monster lead when Derek did it, and I don't like it when JR does it now. I'd love to hear the LitS intro played with a really nice synth lead.

[Karmafied]

I agree with enigma, Jordan can make great music with a little casio,an old analogue synth, a massive workstation or any other type of synth and the question about Kurzweil vs Korg it`s an old debate that maybe never have a happy end , it`s like the Mac vs. PC debate. And finally the gear selection depends on many factors, the principal it`s the taste, many people like the yamaha motif another the fantom another the triton and the kurz and finally i ear incredible things come from all of this synths and also i ear the worst shit come from this machines.

The real thing it`s about the talent for make great music, for make great sounds and finally and the most important to make ART.

If you want a great example you can ear the old ELP albums,the yes albums,the black sabath albums (only organ), the Jean Michell Jarre albums, or any other great old albums in that you can ear some really older synths,not workstations, not samplers,not really great things in actual tech but with genius in the keys,people that want the sound posibilities in all the instruments that have in your hands,but the most important people that think the music it`s first.

[progkeys]

Check this: http://www.korg.com/sbytes/article.asp?ArtistID=179
I guess it's true, then

[Luca_Capozzi]

I totally agree with dave... and, yes, my interest in Kurzweil Keyboards are born listening to JR music. now i've two of those jewles and I know both positive and negative sides of those synths.

a good musician makes good music beside their gear. JR surely can make good music also with a Lego Piano.. so who cares if he have changed his gear?
don't even think about "THE BEST EVER" but, especially when we talk about tech thinks, think about "THE BEST FOR".

see ya

[Over The Edge]

Yup. It looks like a new keyboard setup is imminent
and has been in the works for the man himself.




FL
www.franklucas.net

[Human Machine]

Wow, When I originally brought this topic up, I was just to try to clear the air of rumours. I wans't sure if it was true or not. I didn't realize that it was going to open up this sort of debate. I personally love my Kurz 2600X I wouldn't trade it for the world, but I didn't know if Jordan had a good reason or not. We could all speculate on this; however we really wont know unless Jordan tells us if it's true and the reasons why. I'd love to hear a breakdown of the advantages or disadvantages of either board from someone like Jordan who uses both. I'm not a huge fan of Korg, however they do make a great board, and I've often thought about getting one.
I wouldn't think that it's the end of Kurzweil if Jordan stops using one, but I do think it does say something about the company and the product if it is the case, and that they probably need to re-think things otherwise they could go the way of the dodo bird.
I think my first post may have been mis-construde as to appearing I was appauled by such a move (if it is indeed true.) I do think that Jordan will do great things no matter what board he's on. It was more of a curiosity as to why more than anything else. Hopefully Jordan will post something and clear the air here before the great synth war of 2004 begins :roll: ....PC vs Mac.....Pepsi vs Coke....Kurz vs Korg. Who will come out on top.....well if the other retail wars are any indication, no-one wins or looses, they just provide topics for consumers to battle about.
So grab your sword and battle on. (Maybe Sym X could write a song about it \m/

[Tigerfolly]

Human Machine:
You wrote that you have read that Jordan would use the Extreme from now on in another thread. Could you please give us the link to this thread or tell us who wrote that?

To be honest, I think that I would be one of the first persons who would know that he would change his Kurzweil for a Korg.
I am actually 100% sure that he did not change and this is only a rumour!!! I won't believe that before salty, another mod, Dani or Jordan himself posts this here!

I attended his clinic in January and he also talked much about Kurzweil and other keyboards. There are different things that Jordan demands of his main keyboard. The most important thing is that a sound does not disappear or change when you play a note and switch to another sound.
I doubt that the Extreme offers this feature, because actually no other manufacture beside Kurzweil offers this.
Furthermore, where would he have his ribbon controller?

Let me tell you something else: This is something which has nothing to do with sponsoring! We're talking about Jordan's main keyboard - that means it does not matter if Kurzweil or Korg sponsors him, he would only take the very BEST!

He might use sounds from the Extreme, but not the keyboard itself as main keyboard, because concerning controlling, the K2600 is waaaaaaayys better than the Extreme.

Anything that was programmed in a K2600XS can also be programmed in a K2600R. The Tritons all come with a small ribbon near the joystick, and he can add a Kurzweil Expression Mate to it as well.

"The most important thing is that a sound does not disappear or change when you play a note and switch to another sound.
I doubt that the Extreme offers this feature, because actually no other manufacture beside Kurzweil offers this."

Our E-MU PK6 does this, and it retailed for $1,000 and we bought it brand new for $500. MANY other manufacturers do this. Although I haven't gotten a chance to try out the Triton Extremes yet, there's a pretty good chance they'll be able to do everything the Kurzweil does.

Keep in mind that the K2600 is an older piece of gear now. The music industry is easily a year, if not two years behind the computer industry's technology curve. Buying a keyboard is just like buying a computer. Yeah, I've got a three year old computer that I keep upgrading and adding things to, but I could easily go out and buy a new one that has everything mine has and more, and still blows it away.

The Triton Extreme is the newest of the Big Three to be released, it's going to have all sorts of awesome things to make Jordan's life easier on the road and in the studio. And at the same time, he doesn't lose anything because he can trigger anything he wants. He can sample any sound he creates in the Kurzweils or he can use any sample library he wants for his sounds.

And isn't there a feature/patch/upgrade that allows Triton users to gain access to Karma functions? I thought I saw something about this somewhere.. If so, then he won't have to tote a Karma around with him on tour.

Essentially this is merely a change of his master controller. It really doesn't matter what sounds are onboard that master controller, because he could just use it to trigger everything in the rack, but it doesn't hurt that there are some excellent sounds and effects in the Triton Extreme. I think the only changes Jordan will have to overcome will be using a joystick instead of a pitch wheel/mod wheel combo, and having only four assignable knobs and two sliders instead of eight assignable sliders. Now, I for one have been incredibly impressed at Jordan's use of the pitch wheel for vibrato (which inspired me to work on the same, after being a joystick nut), but I'm sure he could do just as much with a joystick. And not having eight sliders means he can't do realtime drawbar effects.. which I haven't really seen him do live, so no loss there.. and if he -really- wanted, he could get an external unit like the VK-8M and have it trigger the KB3 mode of a K2600R. The advantages however, are big ones.. Touch screen, Valve-Force, MOSS board, the USB options, CDRW.

I don't see what the big deal is, but then people made a big deal about John Petrucci changing from Ibanez to Ernie Ball/Music Man. But then again, nobody's really made a big deal about John Myung switching from a Music Man to a Spector to a Tobias to a Tung to a Yamaha with some stops along the way.

I think it's a pretty cool thing personally.

[Cary]

Maybe we can ask Jordan at dinner Saturday. :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Enigma™]

Obiously there are going to be advantages and disadvantages to both synths:

The Triton has a LARGE screen, very easy access to sounds, layers, etc.. The Kurzweil takes a little more tweaking to get it right away.
The Kurzweil can have 32 layers in one program and then 16 programs in 1 setup. The triton can have 3 layers in one program (Provided you have MOSS) and 16 layers per combi.
The joystick/wheel thing: I'm no Jordan Rudess, but it honestly doesn't take much to get used to doing...
The slider/knob thing: I've seen him use 2 sliders: The Data slider which has an assignable effect *which they all do but I'm generalizing* and then slider H which I believe controls the effects depth for a few of his setups. That's about it.
I don't believe there is anything JR can't do on the Extreme that was done on the Kurzweil - That being said, If someone's going to give you free stuff, and another one isn't, and the one that isn't you've been loyal to for YEARS... Who are you going to go with?

Hell, Someone offers me a free Fantom, Roland's my new company. Guarenteed ;)

In any case however, I think it's all possible, and remember, JR still HAS the 2600's at home and may use them in the rack but probably only for sampling ability unless his Korg contract states otherwise.
It's easy enough for him to sample his 2600's and port it into the Extreme and I PROMISE you'd never know the difference otherwise.

Hell, If I have some time, I'm going to port Over the Edge into the Triton just to PROOVE that it can be done. :D

[Over The Edge]

Wow, I just caught Stormlord's post about the
Kurz being supposedly obsolete.

Dude, you couldn't be more wrong with that statement.

The K2600's run rings around the Korg Tritons any day,
as far as flexibility, programmability and offers a sonic
pallette that the Korg can't match in my opinion., and this
is coming from a guy who's got both in his arsenal.

Just for kicks, try stripping all FX off the Kurz and Korg.
Listen to the raw samples of winds, brass, strings synth and
piano patches unaffected. You'll find that the Korgs sound
really thin in comparison.

Which brings me to the ever lingering question of polyphony.
The Kurz, with the best voice stealer around, has at all times
on any given single sample four oscillators, which has
given it a fullness in sound that the Korg can't match.

Kurzweil has a HUGE sound library full of today's sounds...
either through Rom programs or Akai based samples.

Check your facts before you win another BS award dude.



FL
www.franklucas.net

[Nolan]

Don't know if I should add,............ but I'm gonna do it anyhow.


Jordan is free to choose what he likes. He earned the reputation to do so (well, me too can choose what I like, but it'll probably cost a little more)

Kurzweil is fantastic, I love mine, but it's no secret that Kurzweil is going downhill (very fast, I guess).
The technique will carry on (also very fast) and Jordan loves new gadgets and things. Kurzweil doesn't seem to be keeping up with this because of internal problems.
It doens't mean Kurzweil is already old. Look at the K2000. It's still a machine that can compete
It's not strange he looks around. I never liked Korg but I was impressed with the Triton Extreme in Italy.
At this moment Jordan is using the Korg for solo work a lot, but still uses the Kurzweil for DT.
In due time it is not impossible that he will switch keyboards.
He knows how to use the 'KORG stick'...... he once worked for them.
Switching for DT shall not be easy seeing all the samples and clever programming. Also switching sounds without glitches is not perfect with Korg (or Yamaha and any other brand except Kurzweil).

To the Italian audiences, did anyone of you heard this imperfection at the clinic or concert. Didn't think so, but I know from Jordan himself that it's still there......


Kurzweil fans will be dissapointed with a change, Korg fans will welcome it very much.

Nobody will know for sure what Jordan will do, but at this point Korg is having the best chances. sorry Jan :(


Coen

[6fingers]

The most important thing is that a sound does not disappear or change when you play a note and switch to another sound.
I doubt that the Extreme offers this feature, because actually no other manufacture beside Kurzweil offers this."

I have an old Roland who does this, an antique JV-90.

[Rexx]

I highly doubt Jordan will stop using his mighty K2600

He is entitled to indorse other synths.
Adding these synths into his setup only adds possibilities.
Korg sends him free gear= great! :lol: However this does not equate
that he stops using his Kurzweil.

Until I see him with a Korg Triton Extreme as the sole workstation on his
rotating stand in DT I won't believe the subject of this thread. :arrow:

[Awake]

I highly doubt Jordan will stop using his mighty K2600. Until I see him with a Korg Triton Extreme as the sole workstation on his
rotating stand in DT I won't believe the subject of this thread. :arrow:Not to mention without racks behind him. ;)


The Triton has a LARGE screen, very easy access to sounds, layers, etc.. The Kurzweil takes a little more tweaking to get it right away. Isn't there a PC-based front-end for the Kurz, though? I'm sure I've seen one for the K2000, so I'd assume it would still apply to more recent models.


PC vs MacDepends if the PC is running Linux. ;)

[maJ estY]

Wow people, please don't interpret my post that way! :shock:

The actual reason why I did not really believe that Jordan would not change to a Korg (besides that I did not read the other thread ;) ) really was that Jordan said during his clinic that he could not use anything else besides his K26. Jeroen and Coen can second that. He said something like that the Kurz is the only synth that fits his needs. This is why I did not believe it at first. Furthermore, I expected that someone who is e.g. new to the community and wants to be important said that.

Nothing against new people, but this is the case from time to time!

Everything that Enigma said is correct. Liquid Shadow: If you meant me with your first post in this topic, thank you very much for your hint, but I think I got it after reading his post once. Because of my "expectation" I mentioned above, I wrote my post most likely in a wrong way, so that you kind of misunderstood me.

I support Jordan as a whole musician, not as a Kurzweil user. I don't care what he uses either, as long as he sounds as great as he sounded in the past. Can't believe that Jordan would change if that would not be a fact.

I'm not at home this week, so I had not time to read all posts of this topic, and I lately had not time to read all the topics here in the forum, because I am at work since July 1st.

I would like to write more right now, but once again, I have no time. I will eventually fine more time for that on the weekend, before I fly to Italy for a week.

Please don't hate me now, I really did not want to express something like "I only like Jordan if he uses Kurzweil". I am very sorry if you understood it that way. On the other side, I remember that many people in here wrote that the Extreme would not be so good. Can someone of you remember that thread? I cannot search for it right now.

About the ribbon: I know that the Expression mate exists, but I also know that it is not produced anymore. Okay, maybe Kurzweil has got another one for him, or Jordan has got one at home anyway, but he would probably not buy one at ebay, would he? ;)

Okay, gotta go now.

Once again, please don't hate me for what I've written! :D To be honest, I'm a little afraid now... :roll:

Jan.

[keys76]

Well, you could send me some Frankfurters by mail.
Then I think we all will forgive you.. :wink:

Don't take those posts too serious man.
We all love you here...even the dutch people.

Jeroen

[maJ estY]

Even as "Frankfurter", I actually prefer "Thüringer", I think.

However, I've got a feeling that some are almost going to kill me here... :roll:

[Enigma™]

The Triton has a LARGE screen, very easy access to sounds, layers, etc.. The Kurzweil takes a little more tweaking to get it right away. Isn't there a PC-based front-end for the Kurz, though? I'm sure I've seen one for the K2000, so I'd assume it would still apply to more recent models.


Sure, but it's midi only, it crashes, freezes up, doesn't work on a mac, and is inconvienient to use. I've used it and I'm MUCH faster programming it myself to be honest... And how easy it is to carry around a laptop all the time :D

[merijn]

Wow, I just caught Stormlord's post about the
Kurz being supposedly obsolete.

Dude, you couldn't be more wrong with that statement.

The K2600's run rings around the Korg Tritons any day,
as far as flexibility, programmability and offers a sonic
pallette that the Korg can't match in my opinion., and this
is coming from a guy who's got both in his arsenal.

Just for kicks, try stripping all FX off the Kurz and Korg.
Listen to the raw samples of winds, brass, strings synth and
piano patches unaffected. You'll find that the Korgs sound
really thin in comparison.

Which brings me to the ever lingering question of polyphony.
The Kurz, with the best voice stealer around, has at all times
on any given single sample four oscillators, which has
given it a fullness in sound that the Korg can't match.

Kurzweil has a HUGE sound library full of today's sounds...
either through Rom programs or Akai based samples.

Check your facts before you win another BS award dude.



FL
www.franklucas.net

I told him :roll:

[Awake]

Sure, but...it doesn't work on a macProbably doesn't work on Linux either, but if it was worth using, I'd find a Win box. ;) Fair point, if it isn't much good, that's a shame. I have a front-end for the Rocktron Voodu Valve preamp, and it's lovely to be able to sit there and change parameters without having to fiddle with the controls.


And how easy it is to carry around a laptop all the time :DForce of habit. ;)

[merijn]

We all love you here...even the dutch people.

Jeroen

Heeel scherp Jeroen, Heeel scherp... \m/

[Shreddy]

If your concerns are all about his sound on the CDs trust me you have nothing to worry about, this is Jordan we're talking about.

[Nolan]

Well, Jan, we forgive you......


(stepping down form his throne and continues).....


No, serious, I'm not offended easily, certainly not in written post, because people can take things wrongly very easy.

Rexx, we're puttin up our experiencex in italy very soon. Look at the pictures then. It's Jordan with only a Triton and a Karma. The Kurz you see was brought by one of the contestants.

6fingers, you're correct about the sound switcging. The Korg also does this, but Kurzweil is the only one who can also do this in Set-up/Perfomance mode.


Coen

[Rexx]

Ok but if there was a K2xxx reguardless of whether it was his or a borrowed one for the clinic/show he still used one.
Like I said until we see Jordan playing in concert (w/ DT) without his trusty K2600x I'll continue to doubt he's abandoned the Kurzweil.
(And even then some would guess there's K2600's in the racks) :roll:

[Last Viking]

I think Kurzweil brought some kind of unique feeling for me, not so many
keyboarders use them. I see Korgs, Rolands, etc... but when Kurzweil
comes up I'm like whoa, cool,
I don't know the exact reasons for changing brands, maybe extreme has
better sounds or somewhat else, maybe not. In my opinion it's a step
closer to usual mass.

111!!OMG!!3xtr3m3!!R0C5!!!OMG!!!WTF!!!

[Human Machine]

MaJ estY wrote.
Furthermore, I expected that someone who is e.g. new to the community and wants to be important said that.

I'm guessing that this was directed to the person that initially wrote the rumour on the other post and not myself. The only reason for my post was to try to find out the truth. Quite honestly it doesn't matter to me what Jordan uses or anyone else for that matter. It's not about the instrument, it's about the musician; however I do think that if it is true it would just be a bit weird to see him using Korg. After all, Jordan using a Kurz is what made me research the K2600 in the first place and ultimately caused me to purchase one, it was the best board for my needs. I'll admit that I don't post very often, but I read the board all the time. I am new to posting but not to this board, and again, I'm not accusingly saying that the comment was directed at me, but if it was, it's certainly the furthest thing from the truth. I don't care to be important here. I'm too old to care about those sort of things. I'll give the benefit of the doubt and assume that it was intended for the original person that said it. I have enjoyed many of your posts, and I do think you have been an asset here.

Also Awake said:
Human Machine wrote:
PC vs Mac
Depends if the PC is running Linux.

Now now Awake, lets not bust out that can-o-worms. We all know Mac still tools a PC even when running Linux :wink:

[Awake]

Human Machine wrote:
PC vs Mac - Depends if the PC is running Linux. Now now Awake, lets not bust out that can-o-worms. We all know Mac still tools a PC even when running Linux :wink:Heh...Well, that's a matter of opinion. I wouldn't share that opinion personally. True, you make gains in the sheer brute force speed of the PowerPC Architecture, but you pay a hefty premium for that, and I would personally argue that for the same money, you could build a multi-processor Intel/AMD system with just as much raw horsepower under the hood. Although OSX is a GIANT improvement on previous MacOS's (a function, principally, of moving to a Unix codebase under the hood), and is certainly as average-user-friendly as Windows, I would still argue that the entire platform can never be as powerfull, as configurable, as stable, as flexible, as cost-effective or as power/admin-user-friendly as Linux, because of its proprietary nature. There is a reason why Apple is nowhere in the server market, and why Linux is rapidly making inroads into that market.

Blurb for the Mac platform:
http://www.apple.com/powermac/


As an applications platform, there's no doubt that Mac has the edge, because at this time, the great majority of "big name" vendors do not offer their products. There are, at this time, and AFAIK, no ports of Adobe's applications suite (Acrobat, Premier, Photoshop, Illustrator), although Adobe has indicated its willingness to be flexible, porting Acrobat Reader at least. Macromedia, Steinberg and co. are in the same situation: they haven't yet, but they will. Logic is now owned by Apple, and Apple must know that if people could use Logic on Linux rather than Apple, they would, which is exactly why they either killed or are killing Logic for Windows. There is no Linux equivalent of Outlook, and as good as OpenOffice is already (better than OfficeXP by a country mile), M$ has raised the bar by a big leap in Office 2003 - and the Office suite being another example of hurdles to Linux entering the desktop market. It's not that Linux isn't capable of doing these things, it's that the applications simply aren't yet available to it.

But that's changing. There is now a huge push behind Linux on the desktop, both in terms of the exponential growth of the installed base, and in terms of corporate support. IBM have poured a lot of time and effort into the Linux codebase, which has fuelled its growth in the server market; Novell have signalled, with their acquisitions of SuSE and Ximian, their decision to pin their corporate future on Linux, and you'd be surprised just how many big companies and educational institutions are still Novell shops staffed by Novell CNEs. As the installed base grows, the pressure on companies like Adobe, Steinberg and Macromedia to port their applications to Linux will grow to irresistable proportions, especially now Novell are showing that it's possible to make money out of Linux software (Red Hat's principal income is from support contracts, not the products themselves, which has been a crucial barrier to break: that the products themselves can make money, and that Linux software does NOT necessarily equal open-source.

Personally, as a matter of taste, I'll take Enlightenment or KDE over MacOS's front end any day of the week.

[Human Machine]

Awake:

I guess you are a huge Linux fan. I have a friend of mine that all about Mac...he'll push mac down your throat every chance he gets. Now, he usually does make some good points, and personally I do prefer OS X over most operating systems, however I personally am not a Mac user. Actually I'm a win user, but the only reason for that currently is because I don't want to spend the money on a Mac, and can't do what I need with Linux. I would have to agree though....there is a wind of change coming in the OS world. Linux is getting stronger everyday, and M$ is taking notice, and definately as Linux gets on more systems especially now that Linux servers are getting to be huge money savers for corporations, there will be better applications for it. Just look at the leaps it's taken from a few years ago. Support is now there, albeit not great, at least it's there, and obviously the cost savings is the major selling point...not to mention M$ constantly stabing themselves in the foot and pissing off alot of people with their "our way is the only way" attitude. You of course can discount that one of the most powerful supercomputers is made up of G5's and the reason the professors choose the G5 was because of the features OS X provided, and the UNIX core helps too.
I would LOVE to see Linux take off and give M$ a run for it's money, and you know what I really think it's going to happen. The major advantage Linux has over Mac....Mac is not just an OS. You can't buy a piece of software to run the hardware without buying their hardware. Which ends up getting a similar proprietary mentality that M$ often portrays. Linux has the ability to bury both of them. You can have an OS that is cheap stable and secure, without needing to buy a piece of hardware from company X.
I'm definatly a go Linux person, and I can't wait for the day when M$ is left in the dust. I had a bit of sarcasm in what I head said. :lol:

Anyway, I guess this is a bit off topic, which honestly seems to be quite a good thing. I'll tell you, maybe I'm better off not posting if all of my posts are going to create such a stir.

Brian

[Tigerfolly]

Anyway, I guess this is a bit off topic, which honestly seems to be quite a good thing. I'll tell you, maybe I'm better off not posting if all of my posts are going to create such a stir.

Brian

Bah, don't worry about it. It gives us all something to do :)

[Liquid Shadow]

(And even then some would guess there's K2600's in the racks) :roll:

That's part of what Dave was saying.

But on the flipside, who's to say that most of his sounds aren't from the Triton racks these days?



Really, I don't see what the big deal is. Let the man use what he wants and get over it. If you like Kurz then buy one and use it, if you'd rather have a Triton then buy one and use it. I don't see why people are so worried about what gear somebody else is using.

[maJ estY]

I'm guessing that this was directed to the person that initially wrote the rumour on the other post and not myself. The only reason for my post was to try to find out the truth. Quite honestly it doesn't matter to me what Jordan uses or anyone else for that matter. It's not about the instrument, it's about the musician; however I do think that if it is true it would just be a bit weird to see him using Korg. After all, Jordan using a Kurz is what made me research the K2600 in the first place and ultimately caused me to purchase one, it was the best board for my needs. I'll admit that I don't post very often, but I read the board all the time. I am new to posting but not to this board, and again, I'm not accusingly saying that the comment was directed at me, but if it was, it's certainly the furthest thing from the truth. I don't care to be important here. I'm too old to care about those sort of things. I'll give the benefit of the doubt and assume that it was intended for the original person that said it. I have enjoyed many of your posts, and I do think you have been an asset here.

Human Machine:
My second post was indeed not directed to you. I did not know that it was even one of the fanclub runners who "announced" it here. I akso did not know in which topic I could find (and search for) this post. Even though I have also taken a look at your number of posts and your registration date. I also could not know that you are checking this forum regularly, so it also could have been possible that you have visited the forum the first time for a long time, read that post that Jordan would not use the Kurz anymore and start a new topic immediately. I did not really think that, but I knew and know that things like that also already have happened.

If I have had more time to read everything inside the forum (don't do that for quite a while anymore), I would have known that it was Jeroen (or was it Nolan?!) who posted it and my post would have been very different. If I had known "who" you are (I mean that you read here regularly and that you don't count to the once per month visitors), my post post would have been very different either.

However, I thought about the fact that Jordan would not use the Kurz as main instrument anymore. Okay, this does not mean that he does not use ANY Kurzweil isntruments anymore. Like some of you said: Most likely he will have at least one K2600R. And of course, it does not mean that he sounds worse now. Like I said, he would not change if he sounded worse with a Korg. We simply have to wait for details: What will his live setup be from now on? Jordan himself has to tell us.
The only thing I REALLY hope is that Jordan keeps his current Piano sound from the Kurz, because only the piano sound is nearly worth to buy a Kurzweil. Maybe his piano sound is not as real as other samples might be, but I cannot say anything else than that I truly love his one. I know that it comes from the Kurz and I would be sad if he'd take a Korg piano sound from now on!

Greetings,
Jan.

[Tigerfolly]

[quote=Human Machine]
The only thing I REALLY hope is that Jordan keeps his current Piano sound from the Kurz, because only the piano sound is nearly worth to buy a Kurzweil. Maybe his piano sound is not as real as other samples might be, but I cannot say anything else than that I truly love his one. I know that it comes from the Kurz and I would be sad if he'd take a Korg piano sound from now on!

Greetings,
Jan.

I think it's safe to say he's not going to suddenly suck.

He's got a stack of K2600Rs around, although who knows, maybe he likes that new Steinway Grand in the Triton Extreme. But rest assured that no matter what he chooses, it's going to end up sounding good.

Is it just me, or is this conversation kinda like, "Man, Petrucci cut his hair, now they're going to suck." It's just an instrument change, not the end of the world. Even if Jordan decided to simplify and take just one Korg Triton Extreme on tour, even if it was a dinky 61 key non-weighted version, it's still going to sound like him, and it's still going to sound awesome. If he decides to use Korg pianos, if he decides to bring along a G5 and trigger Sampletank or Halion piano samples (which are vastly superior to ANY hardware piano sound), it's still going to sound awesome. And if he busts out with a Korg N364, it's still going to sound good. He's not just using presets you know, he's tweaking and programming because that's what he (and every other keyboardist who knows what they're doing) does.

Why don't we wait and see what happens instead of jumping to all kinds of conclusions based on absolutely zero evidence? Have some faith man, it's JR we're talking about, not Dizzy Reed.

[Awake]

Is it just me, or is this conversation kinda like, "Man, Petrucci cut his hair, now they're going to suck."That quote makes me laugh now. On the making of 6d video, he jokes about how their music's just going to suck from now on. It's not that much of a joke. That video shows that for the most part, 6d was already written, minus the lyrics, and was being recorded and produced. For the most part, the biggest problem with 6d is the production and the lyrics, not the songs themselves, although there were some issues with those too, to be fair. JP's G3 songs, which were written during the recording of 6d, really weren't that great, IMO. TrOT, the first studio album since he cut his hair, as I've noted several times, is hands-down the worst album they've ever made.

Now, I'm not suggesting any causal relationship here, because that would be ridiculous, but I do think that it's funny that everything that I'm aware that JP has written since making the statement that now he's cut his hair his music is going to suck hasn't been in even the same league as some of his previous stuff.

The moral of the story isn't "don't cut your hair", it's "don't tempt fate". :twisted:

[Rexx]

I'm not dissin' other synths but rather I'm stating that currently there is not a better master keyboard controller than the K2600x. So am I gonna see Jordan playing on stage with anything other than a Kurzweil K2600x?
I just have my doubts. That I'm intitled to, without feeling a need to debate or argue that opinion.

It odd how Jordan used to be a regular here and post directly with us. He's the only one who can say what his upcoming tour live workstation is.

[maJ estY]

Well, Tigerfolly, I think you got me wrong!

I said that the other manufactures have also great piano sounds, but the Kurzweil sound is the one I like most.
I did not say that Jordan's sound would such if he used only one single Extreme, but on the other side, Jordan has got a few sounds that I simply connect with him. For example his awesome lead patch that he used on all of his albums (the one on ToT sounds different, though). It's a fact that this very patch can only be created on a Kurz, because it's Jordan who programmed that one on the Kurz.
What I want to say: Jordan will definately always sound great (well, after all it's a matter of taste, but to me, he always did), but I would miss something if he only used all new sounds, you know?
In my opinion, there's not much different between a K2600x and a Triton rack and a Triton Extreme and a K2600r.

I don't know how teh Extreme looks like (I'm actually not so interested in the Triton series), but I could imagine that it even looks \m/ ! :)

Say what you want, I won't change my opinion about the piano sound from the Kurz. This is simply the greatest piano sound I've ever heard coming from a synth. Even if the sound from the newest Fantom row is muuuch bigger and waaays more complicated...

Just my 2 cents...

[King_Ellesar]

For example his awesome lead patch that he used on all of his albums (the one on ToT sounds different, though). It's a fact that this very patch can only be created on a Kurz, because it's Jordan who programmed that one on the Kurz.


you should check out progsounds, man. you might be suprised of some of the sounds Korg is capable of. i think enigma said he was working on a JR lead sound on a triton keyboard. in the JR patch exchange forum, he posted an mp3 of it and it sounds quite accurate to me and he will soon post a PCG file of it i think.

What I want to say: Jordan will definately always sound great (well, after all it's a matter of taste, but to me, he always did), but I would miss something if he only used all new sounds, you know?


you can always recreate older sounds on the korg too :)

[maJ estY]

All pro synths are able to recreate a patch, but not exactly the same. Otherwise, he could sample everything he'd need and throw away all of his Kurzweils ;)
He used many sounds from the Novation Supernova II keyboard on Train of Thought, but he didn't take it with him on tour, because he sampled all the sounds on his Kurz. :D

However... We'll have to wait until Jordan says something concerning this topic, or we'll see what's going on when he's on his next tour. ;)

[Awake]

I guess you are a huge Linux fan. I have a friend of mine that all about Mac...he'll push mac down your throat every chance he gets. I'd say I'm enthusiastic about it, both in terms of the OS itself and the positive effect competition will bring to the industry. It's a measure of how terrified M$ is of comptition that they bought into Apple and are pushing their Palladium platoform in partnership with Intel, in an attempt to strangle Linux On The Desktop (LotD) at birth. Windows can't compete with Linux on a level field, and so Micro$oft's principal asset is the enourmous intertia of its installed base, which exceeds 80% of all desktops.

I actually try to hold back on the evangelism front; the church that we attend is really nice in a lot of important ways, but it does lean towards the "let's go out and convert everyone" doctrine of evaneglism which makes me feel very uncomfortable and intrusive even as an attendee. So for that reason, knowing how uncomfortable I'd be if someone tried to push something on me, I try to hold back on my Linux / Open Source enthusiasm as much as possible, and whle I do evangelize for Linux a bit, I try to keep it for times when someone else raises the issue. :)



Support is now there, albeit not great, at least it's there
Well, Micro$oft's support for their own products is pretty poor. The reason M$ can (inaccurately) tout lower TCO and better support for Windows is based on the assumption that there are fewer consultants out there who know Linux than there are who know Windows. That has again to do entirely with the inertia of their installed base, and will change slowly in due course. Of course, as you imply, Red Hat has made a lot of money selling support for Linux, which has helped the image of Linux being a "supported" OS a lot.

[Luca_Capozzi]

i'm still awaiting for Planet CCRMA porting on Fedora Core 2... previous one was really good :)

see ya

[Tusker]

IF ... Jordan switches to a Korg (as controller or main synthesizer), I think you will find that he sounds good. Which shows that mastering an instrument means looking beyond it's limitations. It'll still sound like Jordan. :wink:

Jerry

[Over The Edge]

I'm looking forward to hearing how JR's relationship
with Korg pans out with his new music and the
new DT stuff as well.

Who's to say that is all he'll be using anyway. :wink:





FL
www.franklucas.net

[Liquid Shadow]

He oughta keep the Kurz, and add an Extreme as well as a Moog or two and Hammond and a Steinway grand...and with all of it on that rotating stand :lol:

[Spacehog]

Personally, I couldn't give a crap whether Jordan uses Kurzweil, Korg or anything else, it's the notes he plays that matters. Most modern synths can reproduce most sounds, you pays yer money, you makes yer choice.

Awake, gotta disagree with you about 6DOIT, the production is spot on, as are the songs IMO. The lyrics in particular are outstanding, second only perhaps to Awake itself. I don't particularly like TOT, although it's far from bad, but saying it's cos of JP cutting his hair, or whatever it is, is just silly. JP's fairly insignificant IMO as far as DT go (except for the volume!), any shredhead guitarist could fill his shoes, it's really Mike and JR who have carried things in the last few years. Again, just my opinion.

But is there any point in this thread at all until Jordan actually makes a statement himself? Yes he's got a Triton Extreme, he's also got a Motif, a Karma, a V-synth, a Kurzweil and a Minimoog, to name but a few. Which he ends up playing live is entirely up to him, and until we get the definitive word from him, I'm not going to take any of this too seriously.

Martin

[AFKAR]

Lets face it, no matter what he uses, if its Kurzweil, Korg, Yamaha, Roland, Casio or the $100 no name brand from K-Mart.......

he will make it sing better than most of us here......myself especially :)

thats my 2 cents

Adrian

[Rexx]

Obviously Jordan can play well on any keyboard but do all keyboards offer the amount of expression that the Kurzweil does?
No! :P

[Liquid Shadow]

:roll: You keep on telling yourself that

[merijn]

Hehe, well I heard this Extreme RA song. The composition is great! The music itself it really really cool! But there is defenately a lack of sound quality in there. On albums such as Feed The Wheel, the sound quality is way higher.

[Nolan]

I wouldn't be afraid that Jordan wouldn't be able to get the same amount of control/emotion/action out of any other keyboard.

While in January we ha dproblems getting a Kurzweil for the clinic, Jordan responded that any keyboard would do.
Whatever would be set-up, he would play on it (that also shows his skills I think)


Coen

[Tusker]

Every manufacturer has their own timbral personality. For the longest time, Kurzweil had a discernible edge in audio quality. The latest batch of pro-sumer synths (Motif ES/Fantom X/Extreme) have closed the gap. And their stock samples are often better. We don't know what outboard gear Jordan used on FTW. So I wouldn't compare a synth demo, which may have been recorded straight from the outs, to a mastered and produced album. There's a reason musicians pay for production and mastering. :wink:

I do think Jordan has developed a unique way of working with K2600. And there was something dramatic about saying "all of those sounds came out of one keyboard." Call me minimalist.

Jerry

[maJ estY]

I think you cannot compare the sound sample of Ra from the homepage and the whole song coming from the Extreme, because you don't know about the background.
Probably because of the better mixing and simply because of the better quality of production, the clip from the original is so many times better than the Extreme version, but like I said, you cannot compare that.

[Rexx]

:roll: You keep on telling yourself that

Hey Liquid Shadow. It's fact. Tell me of another controller keyboard that has more musical expression than the K2600x?
:roll:
Large ribbon
Small velocity sensitive ribbon
8 real time controller sliders
Breath Controller

That's right. They don't have all that.

I tried the Extreme recently before reading this topic, didn't like the keybed that much. Whenever I've compared the K2600x weighted keys to other weighted keys there was no comparison to other workstations.

Additionally I don't really care what Jordan uses. I still want to buy a K2600xs fully loaded when I can manage to save the funds.

A misconception is that we are all here exclusively as Jordan wannabees or understudies or that we feel the need to have the exact equipment that he uses.
Kurzweil is one of those companies that strikes me as one that does not endorse, pro's choose their products. Not to be confused with musical whores who'll play on anything if the $$ is right. (not aimed at anyone)

Wanna talk musical whores who'd indorse anything for $$ + free gear,
guitarist George Lynch indorsed virtually every guitar amp in production.

[lighthouse]

Who cares what he`s playing.....the keyboard is just a tool, the music is in JR head and heart, and I`m completely sure that if he changes keyboard or not he`ll do it to improve his sound and music. I personally trust any descision he makes, cause it`s his music so he knows what suits better for it....


Juan Pablo

[Liquid Shadow]

:roll: You keep on telling yourself that

Hey Liquid Shadow. It's fact. Tell me of another controller keyboard that has more musical expression than the K2600x?


Expression comes from the player, not the keyboard. Yes, all those things can give you more options, but then again, how absolutely vital is all of that to Rudess? I for one have never seen him using all 8 sliders in a live setting, which means that his patches are fine as they are and he doesn't need all of those for real time adjustments. I've also never heard of him using a breath controller either. The ribbons...woohoo, he goes octave slides on those. It's not like he could program the joystick to be -12/+2 or anything, or use the ribbon on the Triton, or get an expressionmate hooked up to it or something.

It's all very trivial over which keyboard he is using as a main controller, because there's not really anything he can't do on one that couldn't be done on the other.

Actually, I'd venture to say that a Triton would be MORE expressive in a soloing situation because of the joysticks having the +y/-y movement on them, as well as the ribbon right there by the pitch bender, which gives you more control over your patch in less space (joystick could be wah/feedback/some effect, as could the ribbon, or it could be pitch bend as well, ect)



I really don't understand why you're so defensive over this. Kurzweil are not the end all to keyboard playing, and if they are you've done a horrible job convincing me of that.

[Rexx]

You're simply keep attacking my point of views and twisting what I say.
#1------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rexx wrote:
Obviously Jordan can play well on any keyboard but do all keyboards offer the amount of expression that the Kurzweil does?
No!
:roll: You keep on telling yourself that

#2------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rexx wrote:
(And even then some would guess there's K2600's in the racks)

That's part of what Dave was saying.
But on the flipside, who's to say that most of his sounds aren't from the Triton racks these days?
Really, I don't see what the big deal is. Let the man use what he wants and get over it. If you like Kurz then buy one and use it, if you'd rather have a Triton then buy one and use it. I don't see why people are so worried about what gear somebody else is using.

#3----------------------------------------------------------------------
Rexx wrote:
It's fact. Tell me of another controller keyboard that has more musical expression than the K2600x?

Large ribbon
Small velocity sensitive ribbon
8 real time controller sliders
Breath Controller
That's right. They don't have all that.

I tried the Extreme recently before reading this topic, didn't like the keybed that much. Whenever I've compared the K2600x weighted keys to other weighted keys there was no comparison to other workstations.

Additionally I don't really care what Jordan uses. I still want to buy a K2600xs fully loaded when I can manage to save the funds.

**A misconception is that we are all here exclusively as Jordan wannabees or understudies or that we feel the need to have the exact equipment that he uses.
Kurzweil is one of those companies that strikes me as one that does not endorse, pro's choose their products. Not to be confused with musical whores who'll play on anything if the $$ is right. (not aimed at anyone)

I really don't understand why you're so defensive over this. Kurzweil are not the end all to keyboard playing, and if they are you've done a horrible job convincing me of that.

I don't see how I'm being defensive over anything. Look. I don't care to even chat with you let alone try convincing you of this or that, what you post seems to be arguementive and I don't need the agrivation. (I think I said that before as well) And that's not been the atmosphire in this forum over the years.

Let's see, you've been around for 6months Liquid Shadow :roll: and I'm just now realising you're here and an essence of who you are.
End Of F*ckin' Story :arrow:

[lighthouse]

why don`t close this F·$$··"ing thread? I think we`ve had enough of this situation al over the forum!!!

Juan Pablo

[Liquid Shadow]

1. Expression comes from the player, not the instrument, and as stated before, he doesn't use all the stuff the Kurzweil has, so there's no loss to him switching

2. What's the problem with what I said there? You said there are Kurz racks, I said there are Triton racks.

3. Way to leave out the part of my post where I touched on how all those features aren't a huge deal. Skirting the main point...I like it.

I don't see how I'm being defensive over anything. Look. I don't care to even chat with you let alone try convincing you of this or that, what you post seems to be arguementive and I don't need the agrivation.

You sure seem like you care, considering the time you took to make that post and try to defend everything, and then twist my words around.

Let's see, you've been around for 6months Liquid Shadow and I'm just now realising you're here and an essence of who you are.


Mmm, insults are fun aren't they? Way to be the better man here...here we are talking about Jordan's choice of his main controller and you decide to question my character. I appreciate that.

For your information, all my posts in this thread where I mentioned how people are too concerned over what Jordan uses were actually meant for a number of people, NOT including yourself, until that last one. Though the fact that you assume it's directed at you every time someone says to get over the Kurzweil vs. Korg debate might say something....


End Of F*ckin' Story
Really? I wasn't aware that you could bring a definite end to these things, but then again, I wasn't aware that your word was the end-all. :roll:
I like how you timed that part of your post...bring my character into question out of nowhere, and then try to say that it's all over.



You know, I have absolutely nothing against you and I enjoy all your posts, and I don't know where you come off trying to being me down like this. I made a few blanket statements for a couple individuals and you assumed they were directed at you and made a bigger deal out of this than it is.

[Georges]

I think it's irrelevant which synth is best. A synth will only sound as good as its player/composer. I think that where we should focus on and not who has got the best synth. Become a good player first, afterwards you can begin to argue who's built the best synth.

[Lyngs]

... whew... I've been away for the last week or so, and has just read through the posts in this thread.

What can I say? Chill guys... :lol:

We all love our synths, but there is absolutely no reason to start a flamewar because of differences in synthpreference! :wink:

[Rexx]

Now I've twisted your words right Liquid Shadow?

L
A
T
E
R

D
U
D
E
!

[Taurus]

:(

I know some people here dont like eachother... I'd keep the time theyre spending on the forum appart from anything though! Doesnt really matter does it. Ive been here for 4 years. Thats right, I had previous nicks as well and posting like mad with occasional monthly breaks heh.

Lets just stick to what this topic about and have some respect for eachother without.
Everyone here sometimes gets attacked. Sometimes by a post, or even a thread they started. Or just because the other person thinks he knows best... :roll:
Just ignore it guys, no harm intended here, dont make it into DT.net's forum. If you -do- wanna fight it out, then we have a Messenger function in the profile where you can add your opponent, hehehehe.

==============
I believe Jordan can play great on any synth, but I do agree the kurz is the expressive choice. However any other synth can be the same if you go on and extend it with ribbons, external-pedals, breathcontrollers etc... 8)

:lol:

[Tigerfolly]

I think people need to chill with the attitudes and focus on what's opinion and what's fact.

Keep in mind that you are reading PLAIN TEXT. You have no idea what emotional content that text may or may not contain. Any emotion or attitude you are reading in any text is completely assumptive.

This type of thing always happens when people get their facts mixed up with their opinions. It also always happens when people get obsessive and over-emotional about things they really have little need to feel either about. If this is about Korg versus Kurzweil for any of you, then just grow up. If this is about your fears that Jordan is going to suddenly suck because he's using a Triton, then again.. grow up. I guarantee that after the next Dream Theater album is released some complete moron is going to blame things they don't like on the fact that Jordan is using a Korg Triton now, even though that person will have NO IDEA what the album was recorded with. It happens every year, with every release and every change in every popular band. I don't know where this ignorance stems from, and it's so disheartening to see that people can't discuss things and learn something without getting hostile.

This honestly is a relevant discussion underneath all of the petty bullshit. A lot of people really don't know how Jordan's rig works. A lot of people don't know the differences between these popular high-end keyboards. And as it's discussed, a lot of people learn a lot of new things that may pertain to their own situations. I mean, how many posts have we seen here of people asking about "that big slidey thing Jordan uses in his solos", and they usually ask a question like, "do I have to buy a Kurzweil like Jordan's to get that?". We don't get into some huge argument over what's better, we just tell that person, "That's a ribbon controller. It comes standard on the K2600, but you can get an external one to use on any keyboard, although they're hard to find." There's no fight about if having a K2600 is better than having a Triton with an ExpressionMate, just discussion and education.

I think everyone needs to take a step back and realize that nobody has anything to gain by attacking another forum member or their credibility. Nobody cares if you're right, nobody cares if you're wrong. I just know that I'd certainly prefer it if we could all discuss and learn together.
Check your egos at the door guys,

Now that that's done, how about some facts (even though I'm repeating a lot of what Liquid Shadow has already posted)

Tell me of another controller keyboard that has more musical expression than the K2600x?
:roll:
Large ribbon
Small velocity sensitive ribbon
8 real time controller sliders
Breath Controller

That's right. They don't have all that.

As someone already pointed out, although that level of expression is available on the K2600, it's not used by most people, JR included. Ever see him onstage with a breath controller? Every see him use all eight faders? Ever see him use that little ribbon under the pitch/mod wheels?

The Triton doesn't have a large ribbon? Get a Kurzweil ExpressionMate. Large ribbon problem solved, no expression lost.

The Triton has four assignable knobs and two assignable sliders. That's two levels of expression the Triton is lacking, and yet in total that's four more than I've seen Jordan use onstage. No expression lost.

The Triton has a ribbon controller under the pitch stick, just like the K2600. Since it wasn't used very much, it doesn't really matter if this is here or not. But it -is- there, no expression lost.

I've never seen a breath controller that worked with the Triton. Yamaha's got some nice ones, and Yamaha and Korg are in bed together anyway so if Korg -really- wanted to, they could easily license it and use it in the Triton.. but since the demand for breath controllers just isn't that high, why bother cranking the price up even more for a useless feature that only a small, select group will use? How useful would a breath controller be onstage with Dream Theater? Probably not very. No expression lost.

So very little expression is lost when using a K2600 instead of a Triton, no matter who is at the helm. Yes, you do need to add an ExpressionMate to it if you want that level of expression.. but that's really easy to do.

One little note: The Kurzweil doesn't have a 4-way joystick, but merely a pitch wheel and mod wheel. With +x/-x and +y/-y, the Triton actually offers a level of expression that the K2600 does not.

Since we've all been over the whole "Don't like the sound of a Triton? Trigger a K2600R instead" discussion on this thread, we'll just leave that one alone ;)

And yet it's all completely moot. Expression on a keyboard is limited to the player first, and the keyboard second. Pitch bending is entirely useless to a concert pianist. So if a concert pianist was shopping for a keyboard workstation, would the level of external expression even be a concern? Most likely, the keybed would be the ONLY deciding factor between keyboards for this type of player...


I tried the Extreme recently before reading this topic, didn't like the keybed that much. Whenever I've compared the K2600x weighted keys to other weighted keys there was no comparison to other workstations.

That Triton keybed is made by Yamaha.
Yamaha also makes the Motif (and S90, and p2500) keybed.
All are -very- popular and well liked.

In the store I worked, our K2600XS had a keybed that flat out sucked. Granted, that could've been a problem with just that particular keyboard and not representative of the K2600 line, it was something many, many people would complain about. "This thing lists for $10,000, is selling for $4,000, and it plays like that? No way, never." I love Kurzweil gear, I love the K2600, but when a $2,000 S90 feels better to play than a $10,000 K2600 to me (and many other people), something's amiss. In our store the Motif was the king, but there were many a debate between customers about which felt better, the Triton Studio 88 or the Motif 8.. which cracked me up since they're made by the same people and are pretty darn similar.

You've just gotta chalk that up to personal preference. Compared to a real piano, everything is a comprimise. Neither the Triton, the Motif, the K2600, nor any Roland weighted action is as good as the real thing.. and depending on your personal preference, certain ones would feel good while others won't.

The moral of the story is that everything is subjective, your mileage may vary. Complaining about what keyboard Jordan will be using as a controller is just as silly as complaining about what kind of knife Emeril uses to chop tomatoes... "I don't like when he uses stainless steel knives, because a titanium blade makes a much smoother cut through the tomato." Whatever, just eat the tomato.. it's still damn good :)

Wanna talk musical whores who'd indorse anything for $$ + free gear,
guitarist George Lynch indorsed virtually every guitar amp in production.
Yeah, George is a special kind of whore ;)

[Pain Killer]

What about a collaboration between Korg and Kurzweil?
A KORGWEIL? :mrgreen:

[Tigerfolly]

What about a collaboration between Korg and Kurzweil?
A KORGWEIL? :mrgreen:

I think you're on to something here.

A YamaKorgWeilLand. (Not to be confused with Scott Weiland, who's daily heroin tab rivals this product's R&D costs)

A synthesis of man and many machines.

Finally, great pianos, strings, horns AND synths in one box!

Heat your home with it!

[Over The Edge]

Anyone see the Neko from Open Labs? :shock:



FL
www.franklucas.net

[Tigerfolly]

Anyone see the Neko from Open Labs? :shock:



FL
www.franklucas.net

Is that the hardware unit that basically loads software synths into it?

[Over The Edge]

Yes,




and if you want to talk about sheer DSP horsepower...


maybe THAT's the synth you guys should be addressing.


Waaaaay out of many people's price range, however.



FL
www.franklucas.net

[Tigerfolly]

Yes,
and if you want to talk about sheer DSP horsepower...
maybe THAT's the synth you guys should be addressing.
Waaaaay out of many people's price range, however.

FL
www.franklucas.net

I think that's one of those products that will never, ever be finished.. it'll just be released and updated many times. Always in the evolutionary stage.

[Nolan]

Just let the discussion take place I guess......it's a free world (and we''l keep on rockin' it for the good and bad)

We're sensible guys (I hope) so no punches below the belt, an dplease use a huge amount of smiles to make your post look happy

:D :) :lol: 8) :shock: :P :wink: :twisted: :mrgreen:


Coen

sounding like a mod 8)

[merijn]

I think you cannot compare the sound sample of Ra from the homepage and the whole song coming from the Extreme, because you don't know about the background.
Probably because of the better mixing and simply because of the better quality of production, the clip from the original is so many times better than the Extreme version, but like I said, you cannot compare that.

I really don't understand what you are saying. Can you make yourself more clear, please? :)

[Spacehog]

Anyone see the Neko from Open Labs? :shock:

Yes, and never a more ugly and unergonomic design have I come across. Yuck! It may be powerful (but lets face it, how many of us are even using 20% of the potential of what we have?) but it looks appallingly designed, like a load of different bits stuck together with little regard for ergonomics or any kind of sense of style! I won't be letting one of those into my studio! :)

Martin

[maJ estY]

I really don't understand what you are saying. Can you make yourself more clear, please? :)

Mhh, what exactly didn't you understand?
I said that you cannot compare the two versions, because the one is only the Extreme, and the other one (which sounds many times better) is a bunch of keyboards and real drums.

[Liquid Shadow]

On the Extreme version, did he make his own patches or use all presets? I wonder if he did the latter, just because most keyboard demos are usually done with all presets...

[maJ estY]

I remember Jordan writing in here that he did not use patches, but tried to to program the sounds as accurate as possible in the short time he had.

Even though I am not 100% sure about that.

[Ael]

JR used his extreme tonight at KeyFest and did a great job playing through his songs and Soc along with ITNOG...I honestly wouldnt have been able to tell much of a difference except some patches sounded slightly different, but the performance was there.

[Spock's Theater]

OMGZ JORDEN NUT YOOSIGN KERZWEEL NYMORE??? ME IS TEH DIE!!!!1

[The White Raven]

what a useless disscussion.......



----------------------------------------------

jordan have already changed his gear, so why keep the disscussion if we can not do anything to revert this.


LOVE AND PEACE DUDE!




AT

[Enigma™]

what a useless disscussion.......


For once, I happen to agree at this point. There was a purpose to the discussion previously where there were some valid statements/arguements, however for as much good there is bad and it just crossed the line where there's no reason to keep this thread anymore.

I'm doing this for CHILE!!!

VIVA CHILE!!!! :shock:

Thread Closed.