-: Keyboard Amps? :-

[SonicShinji]

Please, post everything you can say about keyboard amplifiers.

What amps do you use at gigs?
What useful characteristics should a key amp have?
In case you had to buy a new amp, which one would you choose? Would you choose an amp or some other oprtion (studio monitors, for example)?

Thanx a lot

[Spacehog]

Small PA speakers (preferably powered). If I'm running in mono, I'll quite often use my pair (powered and unpowered) of wedges, one as a wedge and one behind me on its end. I've not come across a keyboard amp that's conveniently light enough, small enough and sounds good enough for what I want, but the PA route has many good products at reasonable prices.

Martin

[Tigerfolly]

Please, post everything you can say about keyboard amplifiers.

What amps do you use at gigs?
What useful characteristics should a key amp have?
In case you had to buy a new amp, which one would you choose? Would you choose an amp or some other oprtion (studio monitors, for example)?

Thanx a lot

What amps do you use?

I use two Roland KC-500 keyboard amps. I generally run them at about 60% power, and we play pretty loud. Since I'm anal, I'll list it all out. Soon, I'll even have pics of my rig. I like my rig, it's fun :)

Channel 1: Guitar into Roland GR-33 Guitar Synth, guitar out into Ernie Ball mono Volume pedal into Dunlop Crybaby, into Digitech Whammy WH-4, into Rocktron Chameleon preamp, into Alesis Quadraverb effects (generally just used for EQ).

Channel 2: E-mu PK6.

Channel 3: Roland GR-33 synth output or Trace Elliot GMP12SMX bass preamp (depending on the show and instrumentation required).

Channel 4: Laptop output (for NI B4, NI Pro-53, NI Kontakt)

I run everything in stereo, and I've noticed that running in stereo doesn't give me any advantage live. It's actually making both amps work harder for less overall sound volume, but it allows me to pan my guitar onto one side, and the keyboards into the other for sound guys (although good sound guys generally have me run guitar into one amp and mic it, and pull a stereo DI from my line outs), and it's fun for ping-pong delays to hear it bouncing across the stereo field.. but I don't separate my amps enough for it to really be beneficial onstage.

What useful characteristics should a key amp have?

1. Versatility. My amps have a 15" and a horn, so they've got a good amount of top end, mids, and some good rumbling bass if I want it. I use my amps as electric guitar amps, acoustic guitar amps, keyboard amps, bass amps, and I've even used them as a vocal monitor and even as a PA before. Your amplification should never be a hinderance or distraction to your playing.. it should just work without too much effort so you can focus that attention into your performance.

2. Headroom. I've yet to play a show where I didn't have enough power to be heard. I've had amps that I was seriously pushing the limits. I've blown two solid bass amps out, the second one was literally smoking.. and I've had to play shows where my amp was literally on 10 and the guitar player's rig totally swallowed my sound.

3. Full range output. There's nothing quite as bad as hearing a nasty, brittle acoustic piano sound through a crappy little 12" speaker and no horn. If you can hear it in headphones, you should be able to hear it in your amps.

4. Onboard mixing. I'm not Rick Wakeman, and I'm not Geoff Downes. I don't need one of every keyboard around me, but I have found a need for more than just one, and it's really, really nice to not have to carry around and fiddle with an external mixer. Of course, if I expand my rig in any way from where it's at now, I'm kinda screwed because I'll have to go external.

5. Onboard, good sounding stereo line outs. A prepared sound man should have extra DI boxes around for you to plug into his PA with.. however, in the gigging world Murphy's Law is fully in effect. Having everything I need for any situation has saved me a lot of headaches over the years..

On the other hand, carrying it all has given me a lot of backaches over the years, which brings me to number six:

6. Portability. Unless you're on a tour or have a tech, you're going to be setting your own gear up. If you've got to be lugging gear around, you're not going to want to set up an entire PA that weighs five hundred pounds, with subwoofers and everything else. Yeah, it sounds good.. but it's a pain to set up, and a pain to move around. My amps are around 50-60 pounds a piece and have removable wheels. They're frequently used as carts for other pieces of gear, and occasionally for backstage races when we're bored and punchy.

And finally..

7. Reliability. Every single mishap I've had with my rig onstage has been caused by user error. I've never even had a fuse blow out up to this point (of course, now that I say that, tomorrow my rig's just going to explode). It doesn't always sound the same in every place, because every place I play sounds different.. but a little EQ fixes that right up. I know that every night I play, my rig is going to be solid and audible. If anything's going to suck, it's just going to be me.

In case you had to buy a new amp, which one would you choose?

I'd pick up the new KC-550's by Roland, although those KC-1000s look pretty awesome.. and the extra subwoofer cabinet looks pretty nifty.. but I wouldn't pick up anymore than what I have right now unless I had to play shows that were a good bit larger than what we play right now. I have enough amplification for any clubs that we play. Theaters and halls? No way.. I'd need to upgrade.. or just run my rig as a monitor and make the sound man do all the work. Muahahaha ;)

On the other hand, there are some other amps out there by other companies that are just as good. The Peavey gear is always very solid and reliable, and usually pump a lot of wattage. Although I've never been a big fan of their fairly plain tone, for a full-range keyboard rig, that's a good thing. Carvin's also got some nice gear.. I haven't used their keyboard amps yet, but our bass player has used a Carvin bass head, 4x10 and 1x18 cabinet for about a decade now, and we've got two Carvin 15" + horn PA cabinets that we abuse on a daily basis.

I almost went a PA route, and picked up two Mackie SRM450s and a Mackie board.. but I thought that was overkill. And, I didn't want my rig being used as our PA for small gigs.. although I do use my current rig as a PA from time to time for very, very small coffeehouse style acoustic jams, and the occasional practice or jam for. For larger places, or if you want to run sound on the side, you could pick up a mid-sized PA with a couple wedge monitors and pick and choose what you use for gigs. If I ever end up in a band or project that's bigger, that's most likely what I'd do.. as long as the gig ended up paying for the upgrade.

Hope this helps.

[X-dark]

Look around you before posting :http://www.jordanrudess.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=2727
http://www.jordanrudess.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=2477
http://www.jordanrudess.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=2054
http://www.jordanrudess.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=1425
http://www.jordanrudess.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=863
http://www.jordanrudess.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=632

[SonicShinji]

I did look around, but I wanted this thread to be like a summary of all those threads in order to have like some kind of guide for everybody

[merijn]

Forget keyboard amps on stage, the fuck up the sound. Especially when you have a kurzweil. Man, I am still mad! I had a Keyboard amp, and not a cheap one, to be my monitor. I had never heard my k26X sound THAT bad!! I was ashamed of it!

[Geo_Van_Deaq]

what are the main differences/pros and cons between a PA setup and a standard amp?

[Over The Edge]

I like my Barbetta Sona 41C's.
Lot's of power.

You might also want to check out the
new Bose onstage monitors.
Very sleek and impressive sound quality.



FL
www.franklucas.net

[Geo_Van_Deaq]

could someone help me with my question? :D (2 posts up)

[Drusillus]

One obvious benefit to a PA system would be that you could come out in stereo. How much of an impact that would have on your live sound is hard to say though. Personally I'd still prefer a combo amp like the Carvin KB series, only one unit to lug around as opposed to 2 or 3 with a PA (amp/mixer plus 1 or 2 speakers)

[Shreddy]

what are the main differences/pros and cons between a PA setup and a standard amp?

The key factors are the venues that you play.

Running through the PA you'll have to get your sound through a stage monitor.

Our last show we opened for Dokken in Milwaukee and I got to hear whatever I wanted out of the stage monitors.

Some venues may not have monitors to accomidate everyone on the stage so your going to get a general mix for everyone.

If you have your own keyboard amp you can use that as a personal monitor on stage you can hear as much keys as you want.

If your playing a place with no PA, your stage volume will have to crank to keep up with bass, guitar and drums. Be prepared to have a good clean loud amp like a Barbetta.

ed

[SonicShinji]

In the end, after all Ive read Ive drawn to some conclusions:

Going into a PA system means you are gonna buy all it takes, good speakers, equalizers, power amps, etc. which seems to be a expensive option but that wouldnt be the case if you were going to play live in a venue with a good PA system. But in case you are just rehearsing with your band or just cant afford buying so many equipment and want to match the sound of the guitars, bass, drums, etc the cheap option seems to be getting a good key amp (or two?) despite some people just dont like how many of them sound.

[ChrisMcCoy]

what are the main differences/pros and cons between a PA setup and a standard amp?

Pros to having your own amp: You control what you hear on stage.
Cons: You have one (or more) pieces of additional gear to setup.

Pros to Running through the PA (I assume you mean the Monitor System)
You don't have to drag a heavy amp to your gig.

Cons to relying on the monitor mix - You might not be able to hear yourself at all once the rest of the band starts to play. And if your monitor engineer doesn't care about keyboards, guess what ! You're in big trouble !
My advice, drag that amp to your gig. Don't ever trust a 3rd party sound company to give you keys in the monitors. You never know what you'll get.

Finally, you should send a direct out from your keyboard mix to the house engineer. Never assume that the audience can hear what's coming out of your amp ! Chances are only you can.

Hope this helps.

Chris

[John]

I use the Mackie SRM450. You don't have to run active PA speakers thru anything; if you want you can connect them directly into the back of your keyboard.

A lot of keyboard players use a small mixer so that they can consolidate their signal and just send one signal to the house mixer rather than sending one for each keyboard.

PA Equipment is way more flexible. You can bring one active speaker to monitor yourself (or two active speakers). or You can use your PA equipment as the house speakers. or Anything in between.

My goal is to get to the point where I have two Mackie SRM450s, the Mackie Active Sub-cabs, and a couple of Active Monitors. I feel like with this I can bring what ever is necessary to accomodate the gig in a small venue. Most of the time, I play with Jazz groups; so I don't really need much more than a couple of Mackie SRM450s. But I'm thinking about providing DJ type services also; sub-cabs would be nice. If the venue requires more, I'll hire someone to do the PA & use a couple SRM450s as a stage monitor for myself.

[SonicShinji]

Just a different question regarding amps :

What are the differences between the active and passive inputs of amplifiers? what is each one for?

thanx

[John]

Active speakers have amps built into the speaker. It's probably a pretty good way to go as sound engineers spend thousands of hours figuring out what (cab design, speaker/driver, amp, crossover, wiring, etc) works best together. Google "Mackie SRM450 review" and you can read all about it.

[Spacehog]

Just a different question regarding amps :

What are the differences between the active and passive inputs of amplifiers? what is each one for?

thanx

Only time I've seen active and passive inputs is on bass amps... active input is a lower gain input for basses with active circuitry (ie built in preamp in the tone control circuit between the pickups and the output jack). Active basses are much more flexible and IMO sound better than passive ones. I've never seen inputs for active instruments on any other amp...

Martin

[Tigerfolly]

Just a different question regarding amps :

What are the differences between the active and passive inputs of amplifiers? what is each one for?

thanx

Only time I've seen active and passive inputs is on bass amps... active input is a lower gain input for basses with active circuitry (ie built in preamp in the tone control circuit between the pickups and the output jack). Active basses are much more flexible and IMO sound better than passive ones. I've never seen inputs for active instruments on any other amp...

Martin

Actually, it's just a matter of preference. On the average, active basses don't sound better nor are they more flexible than passive basses.. but they can give you more options on a bass that might not have had those options without active circuitry.

My main bass had an active preamp in it, coupled with really crappy pickups.. probably to attempt to improve the tone without upgrading the pickups. However, early on it had wiring problems, and my attempts to repair it caused more problems than they solved (at the time, I didn't know all that much about wiring) so I decided to just wire the pickups directly to the output jack. Until last year, that's how that bass remained, because it sounded so good that way. Last year, I made a few modifications to it, and it actually has onboard controls again :). But the point of all of that blather is that the passive pickups sound better without the active preamp in that bass.

I have seen other amplifiers with a high and low impedance inputs, because some devices operate at -10, and others can run at +4. Although I honestly can't remember where I've seen 'em.. my brain is scrambled at the moment.

But it's all neither here nor there, I just figured I'd comment for no other reason than I had nothing better to do ;)