Yamaha EX-5 (or Triton)

[lebabski]

Hello..I'm a newbie here so please pardon any 'newbie' mistakes i make..

I'm planning to buy a new keyboard before summer. Problem is, here in the Philippines, you only have a very limited list of choices. Our stores here mostly import roland and yamaha units. The only latest korg unit available here is the X-50.
So anyway, let's get to the point.

I'm choosing between a Yamaha EX-5 and a Korg Triton Studio. I'm leaning towards the EX-5 because it's half the price of the Triton. My question is, since both these units are somewhat already 'old' models, can the EX-5 still keep up despite its 'age'? This is in terms of functionalities (e.g. timbrality, patch increment, data storage, etc.) . One thing i find hard to find are units that have patch/data increment (to help during performances, since i really experiment with sound), as stated above, we have very limited available units :frown: .

thanks for any reply and help!

[normthesamurai]

EX-5 would be the best choice. Don't get me wrong, I love my Triton studio but since the EX-5 is cheaper and an awesome instrument you won't get much more with spending the extra cash for the triton. Don't worry about age, as long as the keyboards are in good working condition The EX-5 and Triton both stand the test of time.

[Omega Monkey]

Despite my overall preference for Yamaha, this is a tough choice. The Triton studio is cool because it also does audio recording, which the EX5 doesnt. But the EX has VA, physical modeling, and FDSP which the Triton doesnt, unless you get a MOSS board for it (and you still wont have FDSP which is damn cool).

The only real weakness sound-wise of the EX5 is in the pianos, which are slightly outdated, although still pretty damn good. But Korg's pianos have always sucked anyway, so you wont get any help there.

The weakness power-wise of the EX is the slow scsi loading/saving times (although this can be mitigated if you get the flash RAM option), and somewhat limited DSP power which limits polyphony and effects in some cases. But the reason for that is the amazing things it can do.

The VA engine in the EX was great for it's time and still kicks ass. It's a 4 oscillator duophonic or monophonic engine with fantastic filters and a lot of great and flexible modulation options (like sync, ring mod, etc...). And of course you can layer the VA with 1-3 elements from the sample engine (from ROM or RAM) to get more poly or just add more layers.

The PM engine gives you very realistic and expressive "solo" instrument sounds such as trumpets, saxes, yaks (yes, yaks), and more. With a software editor, you can create your own models and save them in 16 user slots on the EX. And again it can be combined with 1-3 sampled elements (for instance you could have 3 elements of electric piano and a PM of a tenor sax for a funky jazz track).

The Triton does have a lot more ROM to start with (48mb compared to 16mb), although I cant really speak for the overall quality of it. It also has room for ROM expansions and more room for RAM expansion (96mb total RAM, compared to the EX 66mb DRAM + 16 flash). In other words the total amount of samples you can have in the Triton is 256mb while the EX is 98. But keep in mind all the other things the EX can do besides playback sampled waves and this becomes less of an issue. Also its my understanding that the EX sample engine is more flexible overall, such as having better filters, etc...

Triton also has more available memory locations for patches (1792, although most of them come "empty", while the EX has 512 but are all "filled"). Triton has a LOT more "combination" slots though (Yamaha calls them Performances), at another 1536, whereas the EX only gives you 128.

Both keyboards have roughly different but equivalent physical control options.

The Triton seems to have more effects but less polyphony (overall).

So each one has things that the other has, and vice versa. It's just a matter of figuring out which of those are most important to you, of course taking into account the price difference.

Here are the manufacturer pages for each one...

http://www.korg.com/gear/prod_info.asp?a_prod_no=TRITONSTUDIO&category_id=1

http://www.yamaha.com/yamahavgn/CDA/ContentDetail/ModelSeriesDetail/0,,CNTID%25253D849%252526CNTYP%25253DPRODUCT,00.ht ml

[-=AnatomiC=-]

It depends on your style...

[lebabski]

It depends on your style...

i play classic/prog rock with my band, and experiment with electronica, techno, and IDM on my own and with side projects...

[lebabski]

Despite my overall preference for Yamaha, this is a tough choice. The Triton studio is cool because it also does audio recording, which the EX5 doesnt. But the EX has VA, physical modeling, and FDSP which the Triton doesnt, unless you get a MOSS board for it (and you still wont have FDSP which is damn cool).

The only real weakness sound-wise of the EX5 is in the pianos, which are slightly outdated, although still pretty damn good. But Korg's pianos have always sucked anyway, so you wont get any help there.

The weakness power-wise of the EX is the slow scsi loading/saving times (although this can be mitigated if you get the flash RAM option), and somewhat limited DSP power which limits polyphony and effects in some cases. But the reason for that is the amazing things it can do.

The VA engine in the EX was great for it's time and still kicks ass. It's a 4 oscillator duophonic or monophonic engine with fantastic filters and a lot of great and flexible modulation options (like sync, ring mod, etc...). And of course you can layer the VA with 1-3 elements from the sample engine (from ROM or RAM) to get more poly or just add more layers.

The PM engine gives you very realistic and expressive "solo" instrument sounds such as trumpets, saxes, yaks (yes, yaks), and more. With a software editor, you can create your own models and save them in 16 user slots on the EX. And again it can be combined with 1-3 sampled elements (for instance you could have 3 elements of electric piano and a PM of a tenor sax for a funky jazz track).

The Triton does have a lot more ROM to start with (48mb compared to 16mb), although I cant really speak for the overall quality of it. It also has room for ROM expansions and more room for RAM expansion (96mb total RAM, compared to the EX 66mb DRAM + 16 flash). In other words the total amount of samples you can have in the Triton is 256mb while the EX is 98. But keep in mind all the other things the EX can do besides playback sampled waves and this becomes less of an issue. Also its my understanding that the EX sample engine is more flexible overall, such as having better filters, etc...

Triton also has more available memory locations for patches (1792, although most of them come "empty", while the EX has 512 but are all "filled"). Triton has a LOT more "combination" slots though (Yamaha calls them Performances), at another 1536, whereas the EX only gives you 128.

Both keyboards have roughly different but equivalent physical control options.

The Triton seems to have more effects but less polyphony (overall).

So each one has things that the other has, and vice versa. It's just a matter of figuring out which of those are most important to you, of course taking into account the price difference.

Here are the manufacturer pages for each one...

http://www.korg.com/gear/prod_info.asp?a_prod_no=TRITONSTUDIO&category_id=1

http://www.yamaha.com/yamahavgn/CDA/ContentDetail/ModelSeriesDetail/0,,CNTID%25253D849%252526CNTYP%25253DPRODUCT,00.ht ml




:smile: thanks for the info! It's more helpful to get info from people who actually used it rather than checking out the features through websites PROMOTING the product.

One more question though, does this unit have patch/data increment and controllable through a footswitch?
thanks!!!

[idp]

http://www.ex5tech.com/
http://www.korgforums.com/

DIG! :)

p.s.: chose the ex5 ;D

[-=AnatomiC=-]

i play classic/prog rock with my band, and experiment with electronica, techno, and IDM on my own and with side projects...

I think you will find Triton more useful then.
I don't know much about ex5, but I think it's pretty bad at patch changing...
There is someone on this forum, who plays in a ProgRock band, and switched to Triton Pro (older triton Studio) from Motif ES (lets say newer ex5) :wink:
And as a matter of fact I have an opportunity to play with one of Triton engines, now... leads are sweet...

Yeah, lol, promotional reviews are crap - I only read them to see the specs.
But they often lie about it also!

For example, in the Namm video about Radias, Bobby Nelson (Korg Demo Guy) told there is a wave table synthesis and demonstrated it with a Electric Piano patch, then said you can alter it with VPM modulation...
Guess what! Wavetables can't use VPM modulation - he was just playing VA made EP patch. Liar! :mad: I should sue them...

[lebabski]

I think you will find Triton more useful then.
I don't know much about ex5, but I think it's pretty bad at patch changing...
There is someone on this forum, who plays in a ProgRock band, and switched to Triton Pro (older triton Studio) from Motif ES (lets say newer ex5) :wink:
And as a matter of fact I have an opportunity to play with one of Triton engines, now... leads are sweet...

Yeah, lol, promotional reviews are crap - I only read them to see the specs.
But they often lie about it also!

For example, in the Namm video about Radias, Bobby Nelson (Korg Demo Guy) told there is a wave table synthesis and demonstrated it with a Electric Piano patch, then said you can alter it with VPM modulation...
Guess what! Wavetables can't use VPM modulation - he was just playing VA made EP patch. Liar! :mad: I should sue them...




hehe yeah i check out the websites just for specs too. Hmm yeah i was really considering the Triton, but because of bundget constraints and the fact that the EX-5 is half its price, i think i'll just have to make do with what the EX-5 has. Could you however explain further on what you said about the patch changing thing? do you mean data/patch increment?
thanks!

[-=AnatomiC=-]

hehe yeah i check out the websites just for specs too. Hmm yeah i was really considering the Triton, but because of bundget constraints and the fact that the EX-5 is half its price, i think i'll just have to make do with what the EX-5 has. Could you however explain further on what you said about the patch changing thing? do you mean data/patch increment?
thanks!

Well, the price is a IMHO the most critical factor.

I'm not sure what you mean by "data/patch increment", but the thing is, when you change sounds on Triton, (let's say you play a pad with long sustain and then you press your pedal and begin to play piano) they sustain (how ever, I noticed a "effect lag", just like on Fantom), but new patches load pretty much instantly (in few millisecconds), while on Yamaha keyboards, sounds don't sustain and the load time is "huge" in comparison to some other keyboards.
So Yamaha keyboards are pretty useless for quick patch changes...

I don't know if it's a problem on ex5, but for Yamaha keyboards it's a common problem.

[idp]

On ex5tech forum, they say, ex5 has a very slow patch change, but you can make data increment with pedal. And there is solution for every shortcomings ex5 has with tricks, just read all the forum, I did it 2 years ago when I wanted buy one :) There was only 1 reason I dont bought it, it hasnt got expansion boards I wanted, and it has very very slow scsi (I use many samples).

But its a monster, you have to give it time and work. With clever programming slow patch change not that bad thing.

I say try to play both before you make your choice. Try out how slow the patch changes, keyboard feel, etc. There are demo mp3s on the forums and youtube, start searching, digging.

Will you sell your current synth or its stays?

[Omega Monkey]

It depends on your style...

Not so much on your style as on your way of working/playing.

In some ways, they are 2 totally different instruments (duh, they have different names on them! But seriously...), that just happen to have some overlap in what they do.

i play classic/prog rock with my band, and experiment with electronica, techno, and IDM on my own and with side projects...

I would say for classic rock and prog stuff, the excellent organs (the only drawback of the organs is that the Leslie sim doesnt ramp up or down, you have to change the speed manually, but you might like that better anyway, plus you could always get an external Leslie sim and just run your organ sounds from the direct outs on the EX5), EPs (THE best EPs you will find this side of $2000), and of course the great "analog" lead and bass sounds (and weird funky crazy effects). One great endorsement for that kind of stuff would be that Yes' most recent "new" keyboardist (ie besides Wakey), Igor Khoroshev, based his live rig heavily around the EX series (I think he had a 5 and a 7).

For the electronic/dance stuff, again, the VA engine is great basses, leads, pads, and effects, FDSP can get you some really off the wall unique sounds (as well as meteorological phenomena such as tornado, water, etc...), and you can do a lot with the sampler as well. Drum kits are pretty much the easiest thing to add due to their small sample sizes, and then you can tweak the hell out of them. The sequencer is pretty standard for it's time, and the arpeggiator is killer (and you can create your own patterns).

One more question though, does this unit have patch/data increment and controllable through a footswitch?
thanks!!!


You mean the EX5? I'm pretty sure it does although I dont really use it. Worst case scenario, you might have to get a MIDI pedal to do it, but yeah I'm pretty sure you can use a regular footswitch.

DIG! :)


Yeah, ex5tech is a great, great resource, not just for EX owners, but also for other Yamaha owners (past and present models), DSI, and more. Tons of free sounds, and a huge pool of technical and non-technical knowledge and experience with the whole EX line.

I am of course, a member there.

I don't know much about ex5, but I think it's pretty bad at patch changing...

Somehow I doubt it's much different than the Triton (which is switching up to FIVE inserts instead of 2). I wouldn't make that an issue.

People make a big deal about here, but it really isnt. No one but you is going to notice the half second or so it takes to change sounds in the midst of drums, bass, guitars, vocals, and whatever else might be going on. Plus a clever player will map out these changes to occur when they will be least noticeable, and/or use workarounds like switching "parts" in a performance, instead of switching voices.

There is someone on this forum, who plays in a ProgRock band, and switched to Triton Pro (older triton Studio) from Motif ES (lets say newer ex5)

I dont know WHY on earth they would do that. The ES smokes the Triton "Classic" in pretty much every conceivable way. Also, to say that the ES is a "newer EX5" misses that they have as many differences as similarities. They "work" the same for the most part (ie similar menu structures, etc...), but they have much different features and specs.

i think i'll just have to make do with what the EX-5 has

You really wont be "making do". It really is quite an awesome little machine. I dont plan on ever getting rid of mine.

while on Yamaha keyboards, sounds don't sustain and the load time is "huge"

1/4 to 1/2 second is hardly "huge". It might be a full second at the very outside, but I doubt it's that much even.

And there is solution for every shortcomings ex5 has with tricks, just read all the forum

Pretty much. You're only limited by your own ingenuity.

[-=AnatomiC=-]

By "newer ex5" I just meant that it will (probably) have the same patch changing issue. < even more modern ES can't do it. I didn't meant that ES is a successor of ex5, that's why I said "let's say" - otherwise I would just have said "newer ex5"

I want to give people a break by summing all my thoughts in few sentences... to be honest - I never read your replies, OmegaMonkey - there are just so long!!!
So if you read my replies, you have to place them in the context - few words make a great different.

By "huge" I meant 1/2 or 1/4 seconds.... we are talking about milliseconds here - sure it's huge!!! Some people mind find it annoying, I can understand them - if you are playing like 5 notes per second.
It's all relative...

About why they did it - ask Michael Troy :biggrin:

[Dixie]

I'm pretty sure it does although I dont really use it. Worst case scenario, you might have to get a MIDI pedal to do it, but yeah I'm pretty sure you can use a regular footswitch.

You can use a footswitch for this, and I tend to use this feature quite a bit in some of the more heavily orchestrated songs that I play.

[lebabski]

Not so much on your style as on your way of working/playing.

In some ways, they are 2 totally different instruments (duh, they have different names on them! But seriously...), that just happen to have some overlap in what they do.



I would say for classic rock and prog stuff, the excellent organs (the only drawback of the organs is that the Leslie sim doesnt ramp up or down, you have to change the speed manually, but you might like that better anyway, plus you could always get an external Leslie sim and just run your organ sounds from the direct outs on the EX5), EPs (THE best EPs you will find this side of $2000), and of course the great "analog" lead and bass sounds (and weird funky crazy effects). One great endorsement for that kind of stuff would be that Yes' most recent "new" keyboardist (ie besides Wakey), Igor Khoroshev, based his live rig heavily around the EX series (I think he had a 5 and a 7).

For the electronic/dance stuff, again, the VA engine is great basses, leads, pads, and effects, FDSP can get you some really off the wall unique sounds (as well as meteorological phenomena such as tornado, water, etc...), and you can do a lot with the sampler as well. Drum kits are pretty much the easiest thing to add due to their small sample sizes, and then you can tweak the hell out of them. The sequencer is pretty standard for it's time, and the arpeggiator is killer (and you can create your own patterns).



You mean the EX5? I'm pretty sure it does although I dont really use it. Worst case scenario, you might have to get a MIDI pedal to do it, but yeah I'm pretty sure you can use a regular footswitch.



Yeah, ex5tech is a great, great resource, not just for EX owners, but also for other Yamaha owners (past and present models), DSI, and more. Tons of free sounds, and a huge pool of technical and non-technical knowledge and experience with the whole EX line.

I am of course, a member there.



Somehow I doubt it's much different than the Triton (which is switching up to FIVE inserts instead of 2). I wouldn't make that an issue.

People make a big deal about here, but it really isnt. No one but you is going to notice the half second or so it takes to change sounds in the midst of drums, bass, guitars, vocals, and whatever else might be going on. Plus a clever player will map out these changes to occur when they will be least noticeable, and/or use workarounds like switching "parts" in a performance, instead of switching voices.



I dont know WHY on earth they would do that. The ES smokes the Triton "Classic" in pretty much every conceivable way. Also, to say that the ES is a "newer EX5" misses that they have as many differences as similarities. They "work" the same for the most part (ie similar menu structures, etc...), but they have much different features and specs.



You really wont be "making do". It really is quite an awesome little machine. I dont plan on ever getting rid of mine.



1/4 to 1/2 second is hardly "huge". It might be a full second at the very outside, but I doubt it's that much even.



Pretty much. You're only limited by your own ingenuity.




:biggrin: thanks Omega Monkey! Lots of help and tips. Yeah, i implement a complex arrangement of voices in my performances and use as much voices possible. That's why i need data increment through a footswitch so as not to lose a split second on my playing just to press a button to switch to the next voice.

You're only limited by your own ingenuity.

yes definitely, especially for someone in my situation (budget constraints and the limited keyboards on sale here) :frown:

[lebabski]

On ex5tech forum, they say, ex5 has a very slow patch change, but you can make data increment with pedal. And there is solution for every shortcomings ex5 has with tricks, just read all the forum, I did it 2 years ago when I wanted buy one :) There was only 1 reason I dont bought it, it hasnt got expansion boards I wanted, and it has very very slow scsi (I use many samples).

But its a monster, you have to give it time and work. With clever programming slow patch change not that bad thing.

I say try to play both before you make your choice. Try out how slow the patch changes, keyboard feel, etc. There are demo mp3s on the forums and youtube, start searching, digging.

Will you sell your current synth or its stays?



yeah IDP, i joined the EX-5 forum so i could get tips and tricks from actual users. I'm keeping my current synth, i'll still be needing to expand my rig..hehe :biggrin: